Berenson has been at this grift for months. Clay travis had him on his show a couple weeks ago. That's all you have to know.
COVID-19 Pandemic: Transmissions, Deaths, Treatments, Vaccines, Interventions and More...
- Thread starter Richie O
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Strange how those who complain loudest about the msm chug down fake news from such egregiously garbage sources like it's hydroxy.
The insults are not constructive.
But we do see the common fall back position of "NY and NJ had it worse then anyone", after an argument against the general consensus looks to have little merit. We saw it when many were arguing that Florida's case levels, and then later their fatalities, were not increasing, and we see it here when they are arguing that Europe is in a similar situation to the US as evidenced by Europe's current "spike". Those arguments are eventually debunked, so they run back to the fall back of "NY and NJ say hello" even when it has nothing to do with that specific debate.
Never mind their fallback is also a prime argument against another of the covid deniers central pillars that this whole thing isn't all that bad. As @brad1218 pointed out a couple pages back. NY and NJ are prime examples, but certainly not the only examples of, if you let this thing run, it get's very bad.
Nice try but who was even mentioning the demographics of who was affected? My response was in reference to locking things down to help contain the spread of something that was spiraling out of control. You two will try and twist words any chance you can to fit your agenda.
Even Hannity thinks he is off the deep end.......
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LOL the comic gold irony of one Maddow fanboy invoking his fellow Maddow fanboys. First of all littlefkr, I mean "Greg" , you started the NJ to Sweden comparison--duh. But anyway , since you obviously didn't want to do any homework on Sweden, fyi its population density is substantially higher in the south vs. *north and about 85% of the 10.4million Swedes live in urban areas. For 2019, Sweden's average population density in statistical localities was 1,437 /sq km.
So "Greg", here is a perfect of example of why you are temp banned so often along with your perma bans-you are always wrong and forced to lash out with lame insults and weak trolling. Have a nice rest of the day though.
*Norrland, which covers approximately 60% of the Swedish territory, has a very low population density (below 5 people per square km). The mountains and most of the remote coastal areas are almost unpopulated. Low population density exists also in large parts of western Svealand, as well as southern and central Småland. An area known as Finnveden, which is located in the south-west of Småland, and mainly below the 57th parallel, can also be considered as almost empty of people.
It's a fair point that Sweden's urban areas are far denser than the rest of Sweden, but at least at the county and city levels, it's still a decent amount less dense than NJ, but closer than most people probably think, which is probably a big reason why Sweden didn't fare that well with their first wave, like the NE US, with regard to deaths per capita. If one looks at the two densest counties of Stockholm and Skane, they are a combined 6835 sq-mi and have a combined population of 1.96MM (20% of Sweden's ~10.1MM) for a density of 286/sq-mi.
Looking at the densest NJ counties containing ~2MM people, we'd look at Hudson/Essex/Union, which have 2.02MM people in 276 sq-mi, for a density of 7318/sq-mi, which is about 25X denser. However, the 3600 people/sq-mi in Sweden's "urban areas" is probably a fairer comparison and they're only half as dense as Hudson/Essex/Union.
One can also look at Stockholm, itself, Sweden's most densely populated city, which has about 13,000/sq-mi and compare that to NJ's most densely populated cities (NJ doesn't have one large "city" like Stockholm), which have about the same population as Stockholm City (910K), and see that NJ's densest ~900K is at a density of about 20,000/sq-mi, which is significantly more, but not hugely more. The Sweden and NJ wiki pages have all this info.
But if one looks more regionally and realizes that NE NJ is right next to Manhattan, which has 67,000/sq-mi that difference widens with regard to transmissions, especially considering how many in NJ commute into Manhattan - and that's surely a big part of why NENJ/NYC had much higher deaths per capita than Sweden. What I'd love to see are data for deaths per capita per population density maps at the city level rather than state or even country level, as it gets very difficult to reconcile the huge density gaps between rural and urban parts of Sweden, NJ, the US, and everywhere else.
An update on "excess deaths" and what that means with regard to COVID death counts. The bottom line is that there were far more deaths than usual in almost every state and, overall, in the US, from 3/15-7/25 and that only about 73% of the excess deaths were officially documented as COVID deaths. Specifically, 200,700 more people died than would have usually died during this period and that number is 54,000 more than the 146,700 than the CDC has tallied to that date (vs. 150K in Worldometers, as the CDC is typically behind in reporting).
This does not mean that those 54,000 additional deaths were due to COVID, but it's certainly very likely that a substantial number were, since there are no other obvious reasons for the difference to be that great. The excerpt below discusses that nicely. These data also make it clear that the likelihood that we're overcounting COVID deaths is extremely low. The article shows week by week details for every state and has a summary table for all 50 states (the top 13 or so are below).
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/05/05/us/coronavirus-death-toll-us.html
Measuring excess deaths does not tell us precisely how each person died. It is likely that most of the excess deaths in this period are because of the coronavirus itself, given the dangerousness of the virus and the well-documented problems with testing. But it is also possible that deaths from other causes have risen too, as hospitals in some hot spots have become overwhelmed and people have been scared to seek care for ailments that are typically survivable. Some causes of death may be declining, as people stay inside more, drive less and limit their contact with others.
This does not mean that those 54,000 additional deaths were due to COVID, but it's certainly very likely that a substantial number were, since there are no other obvious reasons for the difference to be that great. The excerpt below discusses that nicely. These data also make it clear that the likelihood that we're overcounting COVID deaths is extremely low. The article shows week by week details for every state and has a summary table for all 50 states (the top 13 or so are below).
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/05/05/us/coronavirus-death-toll-us.html
Measuring excess deaths does not tell us precisely how each person died. It is likely that most of the excess deaths in this period are because of the coronavirus itself, given the dangerousness of the virus and the well-documented problems with testing. But it is also possible that deaths from other causes have risen too, as hospitals in some hot spots have become overwhelmed and people have been scared to seek care for ailments that are typically survivable. Some causes of death may be declining, as people stay inside more, drive less and limit their contact with others.
Yes. It's time to open things up and not panic if there is a small increase. We've been kicking this can down the road. We are now increasing restrictions or delaying them and the numbers don't support it. Enough is enough.
The Sweden model has shown to be a good one. Learn to adapt and deal with the virus for the long run. People can only duck and cover in panic for so long.
Good post. It's still amazing how badly NYC and NJ screwed up, especially regarding nursing homes and mass transportation.
I’d like to see population density added to that chart. That matters more than just population.
Also, there are two separate areas to judge countries/states - Initial reaction and how things were handled after the initial wave. When people say NY/NJ did things right, they are talking about getting things in order after the initial wave of being blind-sided with imported cases, which I think everyone can agree has been good.
Apparently we have moved passed the flatten the curve trend to 100% elimination of it by killing the economy.
It's a big country and big world. The first wave started at various times in various places.
I’d like to see the performance after the first wave as well. I define the first wave as the Feb/March timeframe where everyone was blindsided. Once the virus was established, would be interesting to see how everyone did.
Ask and ye shall receive. Post from a couple of weeks ago, but still pretty accurate - and in fact, the US 7-day avg deaths is over 1000 now and the graphic in the post below is not adjusted, per capita, so recent/current US deaths are still >10X EU deaths, per capita for "wave 2."
Tried all this before. He's simply being obstinate and trying to deflect from our failures with this virus. Anyone looking at the US vs. western European democracies, Asian democracies, and almost all countries, really, can see that we're doing worse than almost all of these countries. I condensed the Worldometers data table into a more manageable list, below, which includes just about every country over 50MM and selected countries of interest with <50MM (especially those in Europe/Asia that are most likely to have accurate data). It's ordered by deaths per 1MM.
If one looks at the current data and assumes the current death rates are sustained, the US will have the 2nd highest per capita death rate in the world (behind Belgium; and it's possible Brazil catches us) in 2-3 months, as we'll easily pass the European countries in front of us, who are having <20 deaths/day now, while we're having 500-1000 deaths/day. That's just horrible performance.
What's really bad is that the US, overall, was doing moderately better than all of the European countries ahead of it on the list after the first wave, but because those countries have done a much better job of reopening their economies, safely, vs. the US, their case/death rates have plummeted, while our case rates, after a bit of a plateau, have roughly doubled from our previous peak, and our death rates have also jumped significantly, although they're still not at the peak we saw 3 months ago - but they're still >10X the death rates of the EU, per capita, as per the graphic, below.
Finally, the worst part of all this is that not only could we have done better than most of Europe, which wouldn't have been too hard, especially since the virus hit at least Italy and a few others earlier than it hit here, but we could have done far, far better, if we had followed the path of the Asian countries, where it hit even earlier, like South Korea, Taiwan, Japan, Thailand, Vietnam, etc., and of course China. These countries used some combination of masks, testing, tracing/isolating and targeted shutdowns (with only China instituting draconian lockdowns), with the one commonality being near universal mask-wearing. The CDC recommended masking in early April, but we still haven't issued any stronger Federal level guidance on masks or for many states. It's criminal really.
Interesting graph here. Surprised to see Arizona having the lowest Rt in the nation. And what the heck happened in Hawaii?
https://rt.live/
https://rt.live/
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/08/trump-coronavirus-deaths-timeline.html
cross referenced for everyone's researching pleasure.
cross referenced for everyone's researching pleasure.
That table is good. Never seen population density added. Shows you why Belgium struggled and Sweden sticks out like a sore thumb.
Belgium didn't struggle. All boring homes deaths were reported as Covid related no matter what the real cause of death was.
Rrrrrriiiiight, we believe you don't watch Maddow anymore LOL. But who said NJ pop density wasn't higher? You said Sweden was "not dense at all"...which, in considering the community spread of chicomvirus in pop clusters, is of course #wrong.
How did I try to twist your words? What is my agenda? Please explain. Thanks.
I don't disagree, and as you know have always said NYC metro was the perfect storm pretty much anywhere in the world for the chicomvirus--even ignoring the political blame game. But this wasn't what "Greg" needed to be schooled on if you read his earlier related posts, before he started trying to move the goalposts that is.
you've said this 13 times and provided evidence of it zero times.
Oh yes I have. Many times. Go search for yourself. Stop being lazy!!
Today's numbers:4 deaths,29 on ventilators,83 in the ICU.
21 weeks ago today,Murphy blackjacked us by asking for 2 weeks to flatten the curve.We did not see then that he was dealing from the bottom of the deck.On that day,I asked the young guy on the Retro Fitness desk:"Will we ever re-open?"I must have been psychic.The man makes me question whether Cain was correct when he asked God:"Am I my brother's keeper?"
21 weeks ago today,Murphy blackjacked us by asking for 2 weeks to flatten the curve.We did not see then that he was dealing from the bottom of the deck.On that day,I asked the young guy on the Retro Fitness desk:"Will we ever re-open?"I must have been psychic.The man makes me question whether Cain was correct when he asked God:"Am I my brother's keeper?"
And the 4 deaths yesterday were from previous months. Actual deaths yesterday were zero.
down to zero deaths occurring this month? Great job by NJ!
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