COVID-19 Pandemic: Transmissions, Deaths, Treatments, Vaccines, Interventions and More...
- Thread starter Richie O
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Can you guys please limit posts here to informative things? Take your 1-1 arguments (that's are entirely politically driven) elsewhere. It's annoying.
Spot on. Hospitalizations in Florida have just reached a record.
You really can't make that sweeping statement with the EU. The EU ranges from the first world to second world, bordering on third world in small sections when it comes to healthcare. It runs the gamot in a big way. I had to travel halfway across Romania just to receive a rabies shot 2 summers ago.
Only Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Ireland, The Netherlands, and Sweden have healthcare systems on par with the US in terms of access to testing. The remaining countries have fractured healthcare systems that likely cannot test even a fraction of those who need to be tested and many reports from on the ground told a much different story in many of these other EU nations.
Certain EU countries did an excellent job with containment, namely Austria and Switzerland (though both are now experiencing a small surge as well).
I sent a note to a repository therapist friend of mine in Florida asking why deaths are not rising with hospitalizations. Here is her response:
We had 28 holding in our ER alone ‘patients of interest’ we get results in less than 24 hours because we teamed with mayo but the floors are insane and it’s scary to see 20 year olds super sick with it but they will all recover it just takes your body So Long to oxygenate properly it’s a badddd pneumonia
Starting to run through hospital staff too I’m so over this crap
28 alone last night *
And about 50 confirmed we only ever had like 20 max
Just glad it’s not the same strand as NYC and NJ/ upper north east where it took so many lives we are SO lucky it mutated how it did
Way less deadly now for all ages here
3 RTs in the ER last night usually we have freaking 1
We had 28 holding in our ER alone ‘patients of interest’ we get results in less than 24 hours because we teamed with mayo but the floors are insane and it’s scary to see 20 year olds super sick with it but they will all recover it just takes your body So Long to oxygenate properly it’s a badddd pneumonia
Starting to run through hospital staff too I’m so over this crap
28 alone last night *
And about 50 confirmed we only ever had like 20 max
Just glad it’s not the same strand as NYC and NJ/ upper north east where it took so many lives we are SO lucky it mutated how it did
Way less deadly now for all ages here
3 RTs in the ER last night usually we have freaking 1
FWIW from The Great Influenza by John M. Barry:
"Despite aberrations, then, in general in youth the virus was violent and lethal; in maturity it mellowed. The later the epidemic struck a locality, and the later within that local epidemic someone got sick, the less lethal the influenza."
"Despite aberrations, then, in general in youth the virus was violent and lethal; in maturity it mellowed. The later the epidemic struck a locality, and the later within that local epidemic someone got sick, the less lethal the influenza."
Ask your friend for evidence of the virus mutating and weakening in FL vs. NY/NJ? There is none that I know of from any credible sources. The only credible information regarding mutation is the key amino acid substitution of glycine for aspartic acid at position 614 on the key spike protein, which drives the virus's ability to enter cells, in the strain predominant from Europe that populated most of the NE US (vs. the original version from China). There is evidence from laboratory experiments in cell cultures that the infectivity of this strain is significantly greater, but that hasn't been "proven" in the field yet, plus there's no serious evidence (not counting the opinions of a few Italian doctors) that this strain is any more or less deadly.
https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/t...entions-and-more.191275/page-168#post-4606876
The fact that 20 year olds are super sick doesn't really go with the idea of a weakening virus. Maybe the relatively low deaths so far is because, as has been noted, FL has just had more young people getting sick?
are there really people in here trying to attack me for posting about the border...really...i can post more here..its definitely an emerging issue
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/29/health/border-hospitals-coronavirus/index.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/05/27/coronavirus-mexico-border/?arc404=true
https://www.krqe.com/news/border-re...ort-record-covid-19-spikes-18-new-fatalities/
https://www.azcentral.com/story/new...izona-border-over-covid-19-spread/3283270001/
https://news.azpm.org/p/coronavirus.../02020&utm_campaign=BB+Aug+6&utm_medium=email
https://www.kqed.org/news/11824749/.../02020&utm_campaign=BB+Aug+6&utm_medium=email
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/07/us/coronavirus-border-mexico-california-el-centro.html
Attack you? Dang man, toughen up.
Edit: So it looks like Mexico needs to start wearing masks, without that influx CA is likely doing really well.
This shows how bad FL is doing with this relative to these states on the Mexican border.
Double edit: I'm not seeing any actual data in the links I chose(looked at 3 of them). Is it 1% of cases in these border states? Maybe.
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Definitely due in large part to better treatments.
Could also be attributed to a mutated virus, younger patients, catching cases earlier, lower viral loads, a very low number of cases compared to the reported #'s at NYC's peak, still being very early in their timeline, could be a range of reasons.
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Prisoners of the moment. People still fall into that trap.
How stupid do you have to be to compare accident numbers for a full year to Virus numbers for about 5 days......And, you had a bunch of people repeating it....lol
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I take all of her comments to be Florida related but will try and clarify by reaching out.
I believe her comment that there are more people getting sick means that there are more getting sick now in Florida vs. a few months ago.
More younger people getting sick means the age distribution in Florida is younger than it was. When the first wave came thru, everything was pretty shut down. When they opened things slightly all hell broke loose. My 28 year old son and gf came from Denver to visit over the weekend and were shocked how loose things are.
Way less deadly now for all ages here - I believe this is a Florida vs. Florida perspective not a Florida vs. NJ perspective.
To your point. 20 year olds were not out much originally so they were not catching it. However, last time we did talk almost everyone, of all ages was on a respirator.
I just checked with her. I believe her hospital (associated with Mayo Clinic here) believes exactly what you posted. The version that hit NJ was from Italy and much more deadly. This version in Florida is not as devastating as the NJ version (more likely the China version) but is more contagious and has lingered longer in locations where it has been.
She also mentioned that some of her co-workers had volunteered to go to NY/NJ and help and they agree with that conclusion. NY/NJ had a deadlier disease but the virus currently here is likely to be more contagious.
Yep, it's pretty clear now that FL is close to being out of control. With hospitalization rates climbing rapidly, deaths will, almost certainly, follow, soon (looks like a rise has just started), unfortunately. As I said in the AZ post, deaths will likely be less, per capita (relative to hospitalizations) than they were in NY/NJ, due to improved medical procedures and treatments.
There were certainly two components of that message that relate to some things we talk about here.
1)Hospitalizations are up.
2)It's not as deadly.
The first of those does seems to be very clear from the data. Hospitalizations being up is a real thing, the question on this point is, can they hold out and not be overrun.
The 2nd point is muddier. Is it indeed not as deadly, and if so why?
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I heard back from her after I responded to you. Her comments align with what numbers posted in this thread and I commented above:
https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/t...entions-and-more.191275/page-168#post-4606876
Difference between the original China version (more contagious and less deadly) and the Italy - NY/NJ version which is more deadly but less contagious.
That's not what I said, though. I said the European/NY/NJ strain is possibly more contagious, but no more deadly per individual infected - and I was also under the impression that the NY/NJ strain is what they have in Florida (but have no source for that). The outbreak in Florida possibly being less severe is sheer speculation by a couple of doctors, who apparently have been listening to the Italian doctors. They have no actual evidence the virus is weaker in FL - doesn't mean that's not possible, but that kind of speculation without data is not particularly helpful, IMO (not saying it's her fault for repeating what she heard, though - those docs should be more circumspect).
https://www.news4jax.com/news/local...s-update-on-rising-covid-19-cases-in-florida/
No, it's that the European/NY/NJ strain is possibly more infectious (based on lab experiments, not proven yet in humans) than the Chinese version, but no evidence has been presented yet that either version is more or less deadly per infection. Obviously if the one version is more infectious, it would likely result in more people dying if the fatality chances per person are equal.
Would be odd if the Italy version is more deadly no? Isn't the idea that viruses mutate weaker but more conatagious?
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First comment is I would not use DeSantis as a source on this. The guys is just not credible and has acted to manipulate state data in many ways.
If you said the Euro/NY/NJ strain is more contagious than in Florida than we will see. I have no clue. I believe what is here now is much more contagious that what was here before (even with more activity by young adults). And from anecdotal evidence, but from someone on the front line, I believe what is here now is less severe than what was here before.
Nope. It was a comment regarding that poster's concerns about border security and chicomvirus spread. So the play stands.
As for your "friend"....sounds like #fakenews.
All logical and you know more than I. I am just going by her comments that it is less severe at every age yet they are getting overwhelmed now. Last we talked they had 2-3 cases. As I posted above the same hospital has 50. Maybe it was just absent in NE FL up to now. Maybe it is just less people quarantining, I have no clue.
But while I admit that only time will tell if the infection rate is higher or lower that previous and NY/NJ for comparison, the severity is less. She mentioned that none of the 50 are intubated and several are on high flow oxygen while virtually everyone was on a ventilator a month or more ago.
Not very clear from this article when he said this but Fauci saying there is evidence that the virus has mutated and is more transmittable.
https://www.kron4.com/news/national/fauci-new-mutation-may-allow-covid-19-to-more-easily-replicate/
https://www.kron4.com/news/national/fauci-new-mutation-may-allow-covid-19-to-more-easily-replicate/
There is no evidence the strength of the virus has weakened. Deaths soaring in South America, and the states with more cases here seeing rising deaths. The difference with intubations could be the people are younger, or it could be that they stopped intubating people. Studies out of New York showed that intubation was being done too fast, many on it were not getting better and it should be avoided at all costs unless it was the last option. Maybe they have taken that knowledge and run with it, which would be great as it would save numerous lives.
Has there been significant infections in us caused by illegal immigration? Articles I have seen (Including ones linked by bac) state the issue is Americans or permanent residents returning from Mexico legally after being infected. If that is the case what supports your statement?
So every time you question actual data, graphs, and sources I post, which you do frequently, I guess that's an "attack." Time to grow a thicker skin.
Anyway, not sure what your point is, as most of the people coming from Mexico to the US for treatment are US citizens, many of whom live or work in Mexico (see the excerpt below). Another one of the links talks about some parts of Mexico asking to have crossings from Americans in Arizona reduced, since there are worse outbreaks there than in Mexico and the health care system in Mexico isn't as good. If your point is high mobility is a transmission issue, we can agree on that - that's a big part of why our area's outbreak was so bad (especially mass transit).
"But Van Gorder, Coyle and other officials in California say this isn't an immigration issue. Most of the coronavirus patients crossing the border, they say, are Americans.
Officials estimate about a quarter of a million US citizens live across the border in the Mexican state of Baja California. Many work in the US and have family members there. Some regularly go to US hospitals when they need medical attention. Others decided to cross this time because Mexican hospitals were overwhelmed by a crush of coronavirus cases."
oh im fine with attacks, been dealing with it for a while...there were several people here..brad and then some fly by night above that had nothing else to add to the thread but to personally attack me. But lets stop the pretend high and mighty game some play here.
where did i mention illegal immigration in my post?
guess what I didnt, instead its to point out that how the media has a narrative to push, its the bars, its the young people at the bars spreading stuff
in reality its many things...protests obviously one of them, lapse border behavior, and yeah young people at bars too
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