Insiders what's up with Nick
- Thread starter koleszar
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Flo Radio today discussed Nick's transfer and both Willie and Christian Pyles said they were told that Penn State will not release Suriano.
This is a slippery slope for Penn State as their 2018 class has 6 of the top 11 Seniors in the country coming in. All these kids are studs, but they also may start to think "well if I am not happy or not starting can I transfer".
I still think if push comes to shove and Nick is adamant about not going back to PSU that Cael will release him.
This is a slippery slope for Penn State as their 2018 class has 6 of the top 11 Seniors in the country coming in. All these kids are studs, but they also may start to think "well if I am not happy or not starting can I transfer".
I still think if push comes to shove and Nick is adamant about not going back to PSU that Cael will release him.
It is a double edge sword. If Cael comes into a top future recruit's home and the kid thinks to himself, "if I go there and am not happy I may not get a release so maybe I don't go there".
Truthfully, I don't recall Rutgers being in the discussion during Nick's junior and senior years at BC. And maybe AA's 8th and 4th finishes at Nationals weren't a super encouraging sign for Nick's future wrestling goals.
I don't know about you, but when I went to college, I rarely went home during the semester, even though it was only an hour away.
But no one is saying that Nick can't change. He just has to live with the terms of his original agreement with the scholarship at PSU - and that means losing a year of eligibility, just like Cortez did when he left Illinois to go to PSU. I don't recall anyone crying about Cortez losing a year of eligibility.
I had 4 hrs to home and never went home nor did I want to.
I also agree with you about what you said here except that I don't know of anyone crying about losing a year. For me, I was just speculating about what might be the "why" in all this, and that people are all different, have different values, and what one thinks is important, another could care less about.
I've also been there so I understand struggles. Went to school to play golf....then transferred out. There can be many reasons for any individual to want/need change. Consequences are a given. You live with it. I did, and I didn't complain. Knew what I was doing and "losing"....but many questioned me and thought I was "throwing a chance away".
Worked out for me because I was a ton happier. Hope it works out for Nick, one way or the other.
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anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
Guest
Psu will release him, caels best wrestler of all time was a transfer who got a release from iowa state. Its basically an unwritten rule amongst wrestling coaches to release your kids if they want to transfer.
You guys did plenty of bitching on your site. Why on earth would we bitch about Cortez on an RU site when he was transferring from Illni to psu. Come on man, that's some weak sauce right there.
A lot of people on the PSU board have indicated this sentiment as well. To be blunt, its total bullshit. A program of Rutgers stature is not holding anyone back.
You guys have every other poster talking about "Nick's goals" like you are the only one's who can guide him to an NC. Nick is going to succeed wherever he is just like other extraordinarily talented athletes have. You act like he is going to a third rate program, and not a top ten school.
Lots of very nervous State Penn lovers have shown up on this board for some strange reason!
Wow! Pump the brakes. Top Ten school? Seriously? Maybe you are talking about B1G finishes. In the NCAA tournament they were 19th last year, 15th the year before - which was the best Rutgers has *ever* done, to the best of my knowledge. So you have two top 20 finishes in your entire history and you become a Top Ten team? There must be about 50 or so Top Ten teams in that case.
Maybe you've been taking Goodale at face value. "We felt like we left a lot on the table. We feel we're a top 10 team. We didn't wrestle like that. But at the end of the day we left with two All-Americans. but it's where we're at and I'm glad these guys want more. It's tough, only so many guys end their careers on a win. And (Perrotti) ends on a loss and Ashnault will sit on a loss all year.'' Which is what he said in 2016 and then followed up the 15th place finish with 19th in 2017. But, yeah, you can "feel" you are a Top Ten team. Until you actually *do* it, you're not. I think you highly overrate Rutgers' "stature". It's a top 20 school (last two years only) and probably *is* a third-tier program at this point.
I know, the room doesn't matter and a school's track record doesn't matter either. Are you saying a program that has had less than 10 AA wrestlers in its history - entire history - and no national champs is not a major step down in title aspirations for Nick? Not that he can't overcome the disadvantage, but you have to recognize it as such.
If that's the case, why doesn't he just go to Columbia (the closest D1 program to Paramus)? Then he doesn't have to worry about the B1G rules he signed up under.
The real point is this - if Nick wants to win 3 NCAA championships as an individual, he's either doing it at PSU or some other non-B1G program. If he's happy with 2, he can go to any B1G school he wants.
I don't anyone is nervous. If he leaves, he leaves. Penn State will be fine - more than fine. Personally, I think he is doing himself a disservice by leaving (particularly if he goes to *any* B1G school, not just Rutgers and loses a year of eligibiility), but it's his choice. But believing that he can have his cake and eat it too is either presumptuous, oblivious or entitled thinking.
my take...if he hadn't got injured last year and was the national champion then I think he wouldn't want to kill the dream of being a 4x NCAA champ by transferring, but that dream is dead. What's the difference btwn 2x & 3x at this point, especially if he wants to train with Edgar for mma which is a theory.
Indeed significant but Im thinking more, and this is me getting inside someones head which is always dangerous, that with 4x now impossible he just may not care about 3x vs 2x. ((Shrug)) who knows, just thinking out loud here
Brent Metcalf gave up his chance At being a 4x champ and a year of eligibility by going to where he wanted to wrestle at, just thinking out loud here..
That was a classic case of entitled thinking and not really true. VT was willing to grant releases to that group if they committed to wrestle one year with Brands at the helm of VT. So Metcalf could have wrestled one year at VT and still get his 4 if he played ball with VT. Metcalf and the rest thought they would have their cake and eat it, too, because it was Iowa involved. Didn't work that way, which should be another object lesson for Suriano.
It seems like you spent lot of time on this response, but you either missed the point or deliberately decided you wanted to talk about our programs history which quite clearly has not much to do with its future. Moreover, history obviously has nothing to do with an individual's aspirations...I am not sure what you think that line meant.
Call us Top 15 program, or top 20, it doesnt really matter to me. Call it third tier if you want. Anyone who knows anything about the sport knows thats not true. The point remains, Nick could go to numerous schools and not hurt his chance at being an NC. He certainly doesn't need PSU anymore than PSU needs him. If you are not willing to concede that, its fine with me. Its the truth though.
The truth is the best two finishes in RU wrestling history were 15th two years ago and 19th last year. How you parlay that into one of the Top Ten teams is simply beyond me. It's a top 15-20 program until it gets different results, whatever delusional thinking you want to engage in. I mean, go to sites and do some polls about where RU is perceived to be among wrestling programs. Right now, PSU is ahead of the pack. The next tier are schools like Ohio State, Iowa, OK State, Missouri, VT, Cornell, Nebraska, Michigan - schools with multiple top ten finishes and multiple guys at or near the top of the podium each year. Rutgers simply isn't there yet. They may get there, they may not. They are certainly better now than 10 years ago and even 5 years ago, but they haven't reached the second tier yet - by the actual facts, not opinion.
If you think the room means so little, I think you are the one who doesn't know anything about the sport. Seriously. He *can* win at a number of places, but his best chances are probably Penn State, given its track record over the last 7 years, and possibly Iowa, given their track record at 125 and 133.
Your opinion is not the truth. I mean mine isn't either, but the truth *is* RU has not finished above 15th at NCAAs and has not yet had an individual national champ - or even a finalist. Those are facts.
Here is a fact for you - Rutgers was 5th in the country in
Wrestling Home Attendance this past year:
Rank School Avg. Attendance
1 Iowa 9860
2 Penn State 7833
3 Ohio State 5880
4 Oklahoma State 5041
5 Rutgers 4706
6 Iowa State 3280
7 Minnesota 2715
8 Nebraska 1948
The State of New Jersey loves to watch Rutgers Wrestlers getting their hands held up on Rutgers Campus.
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anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
Guest
If you havent been to a match, get to one this year, electric stmosphere
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That is a great stat- but it speaks to ranking the fans, not the team. The fans won't be coaching Nick up and wrestling him in the room. Last year he wrestled daily with Cortez and national champs Megaludis and Retherford (among others). He also has world class athletes Olympic Silver medalist, Rei Higuchi and Franklin Gomez with the NLWC. Who he wrestles every day in practice absolutely impacts his growth and reaching his maximum potential. In all honesty (because i don't know the RU room) who would his partners be at RU?
We're a young program, essentially, who just started caring about wrestling in the 2000s. The NCAAs, where we are trying to get better, are individually scored. Nobody here is saying we're a top ten tournament team, yet. If you use dual meet scoring, we are around the top 10. Around the end of Jan 2016 we were as high as about #6 in the dual rankings. If you want to ignore dual rankings, because of NCAA scoring, that's where your argument falls apart. It's a legit ranking used. Maybe not the one that people focus on, but in building a program, it's a good start (since the Rutgers crowd really just sees dual meets at Rutgers). My guess is we get 4-5 AAs this year and move up the individual rankings a bit.
Last year before the NCAA tournament, we finished ranked #12 in the NWCA Coaches poll and were #10 during the season. The year before, we finished the season ranked #10 in the NWCA Coaches poll and were as high as #6 during the season. We are sorry if you do not consider that a Top 10 team because "only the tournament counts". We know we are not at Penn State's level, but we are damn proud of our team. Feel free to go back to the BWI board and tell everyone how stupid we all are like you have been doing the past couple of days.
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Interestingly enough, Intermat had them at 11 for season ending dual rankings and wrestlestat actually shows them at 11 for tourney rankings right now.
I think they are on the rise regardless of Suriano. Here are the last years:
2017 - 19
2016 - 15
2015 - 31
2014 - 34
2013 - 35
2012 - 45
2011 - 27
Do you see a trend? Looking at the current roster, I don't see going backwards. With the kind of wrestling Jersey, PA, and NY has (and B1G exposure), now that Rutgers is actually working at it (and assuming that continues), I see no reason why they don't become a real player in the B1G and the NCAA tourney in the coming years.
I think they are on the rise regardless of Suriano. Here are the last years:
2017 - 19
2016 - 15
2015 - 31
2014 - 34
2013 - 35
2012 - 45
2011 - 27
Do you see a trend? Looking at the current roster, I don't see going backwards. With the kind of wrestling Jersey, PA, and NY has (and B1G exposure), now that Rutgers is actually working at it (and assuming that continues), I see no reason why they don't become a real player in the B1G and the NCAA tourney in the coming years.
If they stop the ear-splitting volume of prematch hip-hop music, I would consider renewing my season ticket. :pray:
It's not like I'm uninformed. I would like Rutgers to keep improving, but pointing to stuff like we once got a #6 ranking in a poll during the season one time doesn't really help arguments about where the program is right now. It's still a third tier program today. That may or may not change - it's not easy to climb. PSU was a second tier program all through the 1990s but never broke through that until Cael came on board. They were stuck at second tier for a lot of years and were maybe even starting to slip to third tier in the early 00's.
If Rutgers wants to really improve their sports programs in general, they have to avoid things like this: http://www.scarletknights.com/index.aspx
Personally, I think Goodale is a big part of the problem. His in-match coaching is highly flawed and guys and the team lose a lot of matches because he is not really on top of things strategically in a lot of matches I've seen. Plus, guys don't really develop the way they could. AA should have been at the top of the podium once, if not twice, at this point. He is talented and accomplished enough to have done so.
It's not like I'm uninformed. I would like Rutgers to keep improving, but pointing to stuff like we once got a #6 ranking in a poll during the season one time doesn't really help arguments about where the program is right now. It's still a third tier program today. That may or may not change - it's not easy to climb. PSU was a second tier program all through the 1990s but never broke through that until Cael came on board. They were stuck at second tier for a lot of years and were maybe even starting to slip to third tier in the early 00's.
If Rutgers wants to really improve their sports programs in general, they have to avoid things like this: http://www.scarletknights.com/index.aspx
Personally, I think Goodale is a big part of the problem. His in-match coaching is highly flawed and guys and the team lose a lot of matches because he is not really on top of things strategically in a lot of matches I've seen. Plus, guys don't really develop the way they could. AA should have been at the top of the podium once, if not twice, at this point. He is talented and accomplished enough to have done so.
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Have you considered ear plugs? Or simply turning down your hearing aid? Kidding on the second one, sorry I couldn't resist. I hope the loud music doesn't keep anyone from this very entertaining RU team!
I actually have considered earplugs at the RAC. But I really shouldn't have to consider it, honestly. I like talking, not shouting, to people around me before the match. Rutgers seems to think you need the music to get people "pumped up". News flash - wrestling fans don't need motivational music.
Entertaining team? Not so much. Rutgers as a team seems overall to be very conservative in their wrestling and happy to eek out narrow victories. But to be fair, a lot of college wrestling teams fit into that box.
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anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
Guest
We don't agree on much, but we can definitely agree on this one. However, we've been a very strong dual meet team, which doesn't translate to NCAA scoring in our case when two kids lost in the blood round. O and this is our 1st full year of being even fully funded. We've been playing the game with one arm tied around our backs for too long now.
Well, there you go. A 125/133 has to go with a 157 pounder and a huge 141 pounder on a daily basis. I don't see that as a Rutgers advantage.
But that's a big part of the problem. RU has guys that grind it out and win close matches (you don't see a lot of bonus points in Rutgers dual meets) and are probably outside R12 wrestlers. So RU edges out a higher ranked team every now and then and wins most of the matches it "should" win. Even at B1Gs, with a smaller pool of wrestlers, it can do good things. But when there are 33 wrestlers at each weight classes, they hit a hard ceiling. The program needs both better wrestlers and a more aggressive, point-scoring mentality.
2017 - 19
2016 - 15
2015 - 31
2014 - 34
2013 - 35
2012 - 45
2011 - 27
These finishes indicate that in seven years, the team moved from 27th to 19th. It's sort of muddling along. They had to get really bad to have room to move up. It's progress, but very slow progress, and a couple of things go wrong and you're back in the 30's again. The program got Glasgow, but it's losing Ashnault. That's a step back in my mind.
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I am a little tired of your condescension and narrative on our board. I wasn't going to respond, but your own coach said, after last year's dual, that Rutgers came out and wrestled - "They're tough kids and they wrestle with a lot of energy and passion and they wrestled the whole match with that same fire," PSU head coach Cael Sanderson said. "So I thought they did a nice job."
https://bwi.rivals.com/news/wrestling-bonus-points-lift-psu-to-37-6-win-over-rutgers
I also remember a number of PSU posters saying after last year's dual that RU kids kept wrestling and were not into the stalling that they typically see from over-matched teams trying to keep a score close. That lead to guys getting teched or pinned, but they gave props to our kids for having the balls to wrestle and not stall.
As for conservative strategy, Ashnault is the frustrating wrestler in that regard as sometimes he keeps a match closer than most would like. Heil has won 2 NCs wrestling the same way, as have a lot of wrestlers. Delvecchio sometimes does that as well. There is no way you can say that about Theobold(last year), Lewis, Van Brill or Gravina.
Well if they bring in Suriano,:) along with Grello and Mulligan coming off of redshirt I would call that moving in the right direction. Also the whole aggressive thing is funny to me. Everyone says, "O Cael let's them be aggressive and score points, he doesn't hold them back".
Yea that's easy to do when you have the top talent at each weight class coming in. If they get in a jam and give up big points they usually have the ability to come back and eek out the win. But when your not getting those top kids you have to be more reserved and take the strategic approach.
Goodale has had to sell Ice to Eskimos's here to get this thing started, this sport was on the chopping block and came very close to it. When he started we didn't even give the full allotment of scholarships. For some reason we couldn't afford 9.9. Then we couldn't afford out of state money, till our new AD borrowed for it this year. Now we're still practicing in a building's basement built in the 1931(place should be a friggin museum). It's small steps forward because the administration has always held us back.
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If Rutgers wants to improve, it should avoid having a website? That seems like poor advice.
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