OT: 2021 NHL Regular Season Thread
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Just like the Packers in the NFL are claiming the 49ers tampered, I can't prove it but I would bet money the Wild did the same with those 2 players.
I read today how Bettman had to intervene to get Wilson suspended the last time. Up until that point TW had not been a repeat offender. Got to 💘 NHL justice.
I read today how Bettman had to intervene to get Wilson suspended the last time. Up until that point TW had not been a repeat offender. Got to 💘 NHL justice.
Now the Devils ownership was almost as bad as the NYI back in the mid-90's when we resigned IK. However, the fact remains he was our player. It is this incident, and the way the 2012 SC Final was officiated that makes me question this league so much.
Just don't go taking out any more knees and we're cool. Isles already secured 4th place and Devils are ready to hit the golf course.
He's scored 1 goal since the trade deadline. He might double his production against the Devils but highly unlikely.
Now even as a Devils fan I sympathize with the NYR fans about this. I could name several examples, but I will just talk about one. The last time the NJD made the playoffs. The TBL didn't beat us so much as, they beat us up. Several things went on, from NK to Victor H. My example is VH spear on Nico, literally below the belt. If NH never has kids I will wonder if this spear messed him up permanently. Not only did VH not get suspended, they never called a penalty.
I think it is time for an outline of punishment. Such as if you slam a helmetless player's head on the ice you automatically get a 5 game suspension. Say the you could kill him clause, after that mandatory time other factors would be looked at to increase the # of games. When you look at say. the NFL playoffs, you still get a roughing the passer for hitting the qb late, low, or in the head/neck area. The judgement comes down to the crew. The NHL has to much personal judgement when it comes to the rules/ possible suspensions, imo.
I think it is time for an outline of punishment. Such as if you slam a helmetless player's head on the ice you automatically get a 5 game suspension. Say the you could kill him clause, after that mandatory time other factors would be looked at to increase the # of games. When you look at say. the NFL playoffs, you still get a roughing the passer for hitting the qb late, low, or in the head/neck area. The judgement comes down to the crew. The NHL has to much personal judgement when it comes to the rules/ possible suspensions, imo.
Hey, sorry he got hurt. I don't think the Devils hurt him. I think it was more Lee got over aggressive and unfortunately put himself in a bad awkward situation.
The simple solution is to simply mete out harsh punishment on plays that don't belong in the game. I love physical hockey as much as the next guy, but there are hockey plays and nonsense plays. If the league simply enforced the rules it had, then the joke of a game we saw last night doesn't happen and the non-hockey dirty plays slowly diminish from the game.
That said...as a Devils fan...there was something highly satisfying as a Devils fan when your team beats a goon team in the playoffs (specifically Marty vs Avery and Tie Domi and the Leafs).
Agreed, but I think the fighting/ or possibility of fighting makes the game more interesting, as well as cuts down on stick fouls and other cheap stuff. This may need to be collectively bargained, I would like to see baseline penalties and/or suspensions put in. My example is roughing the passer in the NFL. Although people's judgements are different. Yes everything is heightened in the playoffs, that one is uniform as 100% as I think it could be. Also to a lesser extent, what the NCAA did with targeting. Now yes they needed more uniformity, but most of the Jack Tatum or Andre Waters stuff is gone. Personally, I would prefer that.
I really hope this latest stretch is the kick off to the new and improved Pavel Zacha! Hooray for late bloomers.
I'm not sure what you are basing that on though, it's not like they signed right away. Parise didn't sign until three or four days into free agency. I'm sure the two of them talked to each other though and probably decided on their own that they would like to be teammates. No foul dealing there. Was it tampering when the Avalanche signed Kariya and Selanne? Same situation.
I only remember Game 6 feeling like the officiating was lopsided, and I'll say it every time this comes up--the officials are not told to help one team or another, and if they were, most would oppose it. As a former ref myself, you don't work your ass off for years and years to become one of the best refs in the world only to let the league script the outcomes for you and tell you to intentionally make bad calls. All it would take is one guy with some integrity to leak this out, and the league would lose all its credibility forever. The pay isn't high enough for every single person to be silent about something like that. I also don't know why anyone who seriously believes games are intentionally slanted would even still be interested in watching.
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To the first point in my mind it probably was tampering. I don't get hung up on it because it has come back to bite the Wild.
As far as the refs go, yes game 6 was the most egregious. Still except for that night, have I seen an official take out a player leading to a breakaway, no.
Now when it comes to things like this I try and use Occam's Razor. I don't think it is truly a personal thing with refs. Some are just bad, or have a bad game. However, I do allow they are human, which leads to things like, is a family member or close friend a fan of someone? Is it better for the league, financially and/or in growth, better for the league?
Now this is fun conjecture at the fan level. I know this, even if it is true, would never be admitted. To me it is fun to pull out all stops and see where connections can be made.
In 2012 for instance the LAK were hurting in the LA market. Possibly last, with the Clippers improving. Now all the sports teams in LA have there own network. Fans were very upset. The Kings were the team that was eyeing IK, and the ones who complained the loudest when the contract was signed. Yes with the NJD having 3 Cups, to 0 for LA, I would question some of what went on.
Now, let me not stop there. I using the same OR method would also say, if my hunch is correct, this may explain why my Devils have won the Lottery twice.
Is it true, I don't know. However it makes sense to me.
Different sport, but it fits here. The umpire in the outfield the night Jeff Maire caught the " homerun" ball was Richie Garcia. Several years later RG was fired by MLB for gambling. Could all be coincidence, or not. I think the league may have kid gloves with Tom Wilson because he protects Ovie like the way Gretzky had DS and MM. I think about the money at stake even if he doesn't break Gretzky's goal record. All of this could very well be nothing, but I think it is compelling. Very interesting to think about.
I still don't know why you think it was tampering. There is zero evidence that supports that accusation. It was just a case of two players wanting to be teammates, it happens sometimes.
As for the official taking out a player, I assume you are talking about the linesman that got in Volchenkov's way. This was clearly a case of the linesman guessing wrong as to what lane Volchenkov was going to take. There is no way any official is going to intentionally get in a player's way with the Stanley Cup on the line. I can't remember that linesman's name, but I can tell you that if he were able to change one moment in his career, that would almost certainly be it.
The referees do not care who wins the games. They especially do not care about if someone they know is a fan of one of the teams they are rooting for. They also do not care about financial benefits for the league if one team wins or another. That is none of their concern, they aren't league executives. They aren't puppet masters looking to pull strings and manipulate outcomes, they step out onto the ice as professionals looking to perform to the best of their abilities just like the players do. The players and coaches don't care about the league's finances and neither do the refs.
As for "making connections," the people who believe in this stuff only ever point to scenarios that fit their argument. You could find just as many instances of a bad call going against a team whose success would benefit the league. Why wasn't the fix in to save the Thrashers, Nordiques, North Stars, etc? Why haven't they helped the big markets like Toronto, Montreal, New York, etc win a Cup in the past couple decades? I'm telling you with 100% certainty, this stuff just does not happen. It's not even worth the risk.
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Agree to disagree. You are a ref, so you are putting how you are into it. Now as I said I have fun with what could be, in certain situations. If I was into conspiracy, and thought everything was rigged I would not watch. I don't, I think sometimes things happen because of human nature or financial interests. As I always say, while it makes sense to me I could be wrong. I know you think I'm wrong.
Lastly, on your why does the NHL grease the skids for say Toronto or NYR. Along my OR theory, it is this. If you consider the Toronto Maple Leads, New York Rangers, and I will throw in the Philadelphia Flyers they all have certain key things in common. 1. Very long Stanley Cup droughts. The NYR won last of the 3 in 1994, 1 Cup in 81 years. 2. These are some of the riches organizations. 3. No matter how they are doing there large die-hard fan bases show up, ( in normal times) and buy merchandise. Now using Occam's Razor I would argue the NHL does not feel they have to intervene because these franchises make money.
The only reason after the fumble, Pete Rozell helped broker the George Young hire is because the Giants had lost so much they were using fans and the league was using money. Again, I am just coming up with what I call fun fan theories. Feel free to continue to dismiss them out of hand.
One last thing I want to clarify, you may be right. I maybe over thinking the whole thing!
Well I'm not just basing this on my own past life as a ref (I happily let my certification expire a couple years ago and don't miss it at all). I was never anywhere remotely close to reffing an NHL game, but I did work with guys in the summer who during the season reffed NCAA, AHL, USHL, NAHL, IIHF, etc, and I worked in league and team admin roles for about 10 years and was involved with player suspensions--both issuing them from the league's standpoint as well as representing the team and player while reviewing incidents with league executives (again, not in the pros, but the factors taken into consideration are similar enough). My boss for a while was a former assistant GM of the Rangers and I worked with some retired NHL players. I think I have a good feel of what it's like in the refs' minds as well as the league's perspective on things.
Of course there is always human nature--refs miss calls or sometimes make reputation calls or make-up calls, or let infractions go unpenalized in playoff overtime, etc. There's no denying any of that, but I assure you they aren't trying to manipulate outcomes. Which team wins is irrelevant to them, for them a win is a well-officiated game. Nobody wants their name attached to a controversial call and nobody is sacrificing their reputation by intentionally helping any particular team. During intermission they look at replays of calls they want to get another look at and evaluate their own performance. Going back to 2012, if the league were to interfere with the on-ice officiating, it would have financially made sense for them to help the Devils in Game 6 in order to force a Game 7 for the Stanley Cup. There would be a lot more 7-game series if there was any league interfering going on, and surely by now there'd be at least a few players, coaches, GMs, etc. accusing the league of either on-ice or off-ice manipulation.
Now from the league's perspective, they may prefer if certain teams succeed, but they definitely don't go as far as undermining the competitive balance by rigging draft lotteries, meddling with the on-ice officiating, etc. The only way there would be enough upside to taking such a massive risk would be if the league was on the verge of financial ruin and needed to do something that drastic just to stay afloat.
I can ramble on forever...moral of the story, your last post is correct--you are overthinking it lol. Check out this Players Tribune article from Kerry Fraser, I think it does a good job giving the reader a sense of what goes through the refs' minds, especially the part about the infamous missed high stick by Gretzky in the 1993 conference finals that people thought was intentionally not called in order to help Gretzky and the Kings reach the Stanley Cup Finals.
Great information. I have always been the type to ask questions, and try to get to the bottom of things. I look at it all as finding the potential hidden variable. Kind of like a sports version of In Search Of.... Not neccessary what is, but what could be, when things don't look right.
This tool helps me keep sports in proper prospective, and never overreacted.
Devils moving top minor league team again. Moving from Binghamton back to Utica. The last time we were there, we were building a SC Championship team. It is where we were when Marty was drafted. I'm not a karma person, but I hope this somehow helps!
I don't think the Wild did anything shaddy. If I remember correct Brodeur and Parise talked to Suter about signing with Devils. He flat out said he wasn't interested in leaving the western conference.
As for the Kovalchuk deal it was pretty much a joke. In my mind the difference was that Bettman and NHL knew the devils owner was hurting and missing payments on loans. While Zetterberg(Detriot), Hossa(Chicago) and Pronger(Philly) deals were all similar. Bettman would never go against those owners. Devils owner had no pull or leverage to fight back. Only once a very rich owner took over the Devils did Bettman bend and give back what should have never been taken the Devils first round pick.
As for the Kovalchuk deal it was pretty much a joke. In my mind the difference was that Bettman and NHL knew the devils owner was hurting and missing payments on loans. While Zetterberg(Detriot), Hossa(Chicago) and Pronger(Philly) deals were all similar. Bettman would never go against those owners. Devils owner had no pull or leverage to fight back. Only once a very rich owner took over the Devils did Bettman bend and give back what should have never been taken the Devils first round pick.
I was always happy it worked out for the Wild 😆. Very happy the NJD have much better, yes richer owners!
Hopefully they go back to the old Utica Devils logo and ditch the cartoony Binghamton logo.
I know he crosses the line, TW, but I can't ever root for injuries. That looked knee on knee. More cheap stuff because players have no fear of reprisals. It used to be they not only had to answer the other team, but there tough guys if they did something cheap to start a fight.
Nah this was an accident, the puck was going in that direction and both players were trying to make a play on it. Even the Capitals announcers acknowledged it was accidental. You can tell because the Flyers guy was looking at the puck the whole way, if he was trying to throw a cheap shot, he wouldn't be focusing on the puck and he probably would have done it in a way that wouldn't also hurt himself.
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