the problem starts long before the mayors incompetence. Sounds like the root cause is the controlled burns that are no longer being done to save the environment
OT: DEVASTATING WILDFIRE ….Santa Monica/Palisades fire being aided by 50-80mph Santa Ana winds. 100mph possible overnight
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Politicizing this natural disaster is just nuts.
Not stopped it - but certainly would have lessened it. Stop making excuses for incompetence. They didn't even send out the word for the departments in Northern California to respond for 30 hours. a total clusterXXXX
Water demand was 4x normal for 15 straight hours. That's a serious taxing of the system.
Were the fire fighters able to contain the fires during those 15 hours?
Given the mechanics of getting water from reservoirs and into holding tanks, and then from those tanks and to the trucks, would having another reservoir actually solve this issue? Are the current reservoirs out of water?
Would it have?
I dunno I keep seeing these damning critiques, but then you look a little closer and they don't look that significant.
Like she cut the fire fighter budget by $17 mil. The budget is $837 mil. Is that $17 mil really the difference here?
100 mph winds. That to me is the story.
No it's not - I watched the press conference with the Mayor and the Head of the LA Power and Water live. It was a total joke - the Mayor had no idea what she was talking about and had to be contradicted by the LAPAW person. The right leadership would not have stopped this disaster completely but It certainly would have helped. Elections have consequences. Stop making excuses - oh wait never mind - climate change caused this.
I wonder about the controlled burns really being the cure for all this. I know it's often brought up, but I don't know.
Edit: Especially one like this that is so close to where people live.
Incompetence that caused a natural disaster to be worse than it had to be is just nuts
Since you brought it up, I mean yeah, consistently higher temps over decades will create conditions more conducive to fires.
The 100 mph winds sound pretty extreme too.
Stop asking sensible questions. Don't you know nothing could have been done - If I were the LA mayor I would just disband the fire department completely - after all nothing can be done. The homeless could use the money. And as the Governor said live on TV when asked about the water shortage to fight the fire his response was classic Newsome - "that's a local issue". Elections have consequences.
Could anything have been done to mitigate the extent of the damage? Had they built the reservoirs, the dams and hydrants worked, not cut the budget and had more more fire fighters, planes, choppers, and equipment, planes dropped water before the winds started, buildings and brush hosed down, etc.? I read that controlled burns and clearing the brush in the mountains are difficult due to he terrain but are they not done due to costs or is it nearly impossible?
As someone responded to the question, one reason for lack of helicopters and other aircraft is the 100 mph winds..
I guess it's a sensible question. But it's not one of those gotcha questions. Answer was kind of obvious if you thought about it.
Sorry but you are just plain wrong. The level of incompetence is beyond comprehension. I already agreed this fire could not have been stopped completely but proper planning and leadership could have helped contain it. Stop accepting this from government.
I'm countering some of these narratives, because when you look a little deeper these are not as scathing a critique as they first appear, but I really don't know.
Like the reservoir question, if the one reservoir has plenty of water, does another reservoir really change anything? I don't know.
I think this disaster shines a light on some obvious gov't incompetence and waste, but I'm not sure it really stops anything.
Local news station NBC4. asking why there are no helicopters or water planes currently on the air ??
They'll blame it on global warming, corporate greed, hand out a few stimulus checks, then get re-elected. I'm very cynical about the voting public out in California. There's no accountability in either politics or academics.
No one has said this could have been stopped
But at the same time…it didn’t have to be this bad
Shouldn't global warming and climate change be a part of this discussion.
Higher then recent historical avg temps.
10% of typical rain fall since Oct.
Santa Ana winds of the extreme variety both in terms of intensity as well as longevity.
The Mayor going to Ghana? It's a bad look, but it really has nothing to do with this.
It probably would have.
See the Rogan video above. A fire fighter said with the 40 mph Santa Ana winds, if there is ever a fire in LA there would be no stopping it. Well there are 100 mph winds this time.
I'm honestly curious to know the answers. If they had multiple reservoirs, would they have watered the areas a lot before the winds so they were wet and not dry? Maybe with only 1 reservoir, they're in more conservation mode to use the water to fight fires after the started or worried about people not having enough drinking water.
No - For two simple reasons. There have been wild fires in this area for as long as anyone can remember - no way to delineate and extract if man made production of CO2 has changed anything. And reason two - Blaming climate change takes everyone off the hook and pouring money into CO2 reduction takes money from common sense projects that are proven to help - like cleaning the forest and putting in significant fire breaks.
California doesn't do the controlled burns that would, in fact, prevent/lessen this type of stuff.
Just because there have been wild fires before doesn't mean that global warming doesn't make things worse.
And it doesn't take anyone off the hook. Saying it's not climate change takes everyone off the hook.
The firefighters are not without water because of a drought or missing reservoirs. Local water tanks - the things you see along the road or on hills, get filled up over time throughout the day to create pressure in local pipes and handle spikes in demand. When demand exceeds local tank design capacity, pressure drops or water stops flowing. The higher you go in elevation, the bigger the pressure problem. All of the tanks were full at the start of the fire and were refilled multiple times during the day.
explained by city chief utility engineer:
“Those tanks help with the pressure on the fire hydrants in the hills in the Palisades, and because we were pushing so much water in our trunk line, and so much water was being used. ... we were not able to fill the tanks fast enough,” she said. “So the consumption of water was faster than we can provide water in a trunk line.”
explained by city chief utility engineer:
“Those tanks help with the pressure on the fire hydrants in the hills in the Palisades, and because we were pushing so much water in our trunk line, and so much water was being used. ... we were not able to fill the tanks fast enough,” she said. “So the consumption of water was faster than we can provide water in a trunk line.”
no one is doing that but you - people are looking at what is happening and the response of government is not acceptable.
But could the tanks be filled faster with more reservoirs?
Or maybe they need more tanks?
No state has more restrictions on CO2, water usage and energy in general than California - doesn't seem to be working to me. I like common sense projects we know will help. You know boring practical stuff like reservoirs, better irrigation. improved water distribution, fire breaks and brush removal.
That would be @RUforester72
But I’m sure he’d agree with me air is the most expensive part of these operations.
I’ve talked about this before but when still active with the Eastern Area IMT I was sent to Alaska for a fire. I am in the Finance Section of the team and responsible for managing the cost. EIGHT figure ($$$$) fire. My most expensive line item was air.
So much so you would consider buying your own plane. LOL
Coolest thing about working on that fire besides the beauty of area of Alaska and the wonderful native people was the fact there were four different Rutgers Alumni on the team. We were all Cook guys and didn’t know each other until we met up in Alaska.
1am EST Wednesday into Thursday(today)
There were 6-8 water tankers lined up on side of the road waiting for direction on where to go
Could these have been ready 24 hours earlier ??
What is the time it takes to assemble them ?
There were 6-8 water tankers lined up on side of the road waiting for direction on where to go
Could these have been ready 24 hours earlier ??
What is the time it takes to assemble them ?
Over 48 hours in. Lights winds last night and so far today. 0% containment of any of the fires. Buildings still in flames with no fire fighters present.
it started before she was in office but if she was competent she would have done the right thing and reinstated it. she ignored it.
California being the state most focused on these things, doesn't mean that Climate Change is not a significant factor in this.
But California trying to reduce emissions in the face of a world that continues to spew CO2 into the atmosphere does resemble thinking putting in fire stops would have stopped this disaster.
It's like thinking the bulkhead down the street would stop a tsunami.
Fire in Georgia many years ago.
It was in the Okeefeenokee Swamp. Threatening lots of the pine forests used to make furniture.
Guys like that with fuel and water would just show up and expect to paid on the spot. It was a little scary being in the trailer with those dudes. There is a system but maybe CA wasn’t prepared for it to be this big and bad this fast.
Team There are winds predicted to gust over 75mph starting tomorrow …….
What are our plans if a fire starts ??
Can we have 4 helicopters and 1 plane filled and ready ?
I want 10 locations picked for potential fires
What’s the plan for that area , fire fighters available , fire fighters eta , obstacles , air support plan and timing of air supports round trip ? Wind limits for air support. Plan without air suppprt
We will meet back here in 4 hours
What are our plans if a fire starts ??
Can we have 4 helicopters and 1 plane filled and ready ?
I want 10 locations picked for potential fires
What’s the plan for that area , fire fighters available , fire fighters eta , obstacles , air support plan and timing of air supports round trip ? Wind limits for air support. Plan without air suppprt
We will meet back here in 4 hours
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