Hotter/drier would call for better water/forest management near population centers.
Alas smelts were deemed more important
Harvard man explains
OT: DEVASTATING WILDFIRE ….Santa Monica/Palisades fire being aided by 50-80mph Santa Ana winds. 100mph possible overnight
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Hotter/drier would call for better water/forest management near population centers.
Alas smelts were deemed more important
Harvard man explains
The biggest thing the next Gov (hopefully Caruso) and Mayor (this one is likely to get recalled) can do is the simple tactics that others before them have done. Get the dams back in order, build more dams to collect rain water (already collected tax rev to do so after getting voted on), DEFORESTATION (f the environazis), allow insurance companies to come back into the state and insure people, and hire more capable fire fighters. It's not rocket science. The playbook already exists. Newscum changed it.
This is going to happen every year until there is no more earth. Be ready.
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I've seen little towns in third world countries desalinating water. If they can do it, Ca. with the highest taxes in the country can do it on a mass scale.
the good news is that the 1 smelt left in California is safe.
Obviously true. Cannot believe people do not immediately recognize that.
California, in particular Southern California, is much more dry. NoCal may have a lot more fuel in the form of forests, but there is more wet weather there that even includes dense fogs. Beyond the coast it does become more desert-like and the inland desert heat fuels the hot dry winds in windy seasons and that serves to further dry out the forest floor kindling.
Bottom line: Southern California is subject to little to no rainfall in summer.. averaging like 2 inches. There's a song.. it never rains in southern California. There's not song about it never raining in Austria.
Clearing forest floors in accessible, and thus populated, areas of Austria is easier.. more road access plus the forest is treated as a resource.. it is managed. Austria also has a lot of snowcap mountains that can feed melt during dry seasons.
But the main difference between managaing fire risk in California vs Austria is the human element.. while Austria intends to prevent such fire possibilities.. Austria will do what is necessary to get it done.. California doesn't seem to care.
Britannica:
California
The average annual precipitation in California from 1895–2023 was 23.5 inches. However, precipitation levels have varied from 10.75 inches in 1924 to 42.82 inches in 1983
Austria
The western regions of Austria receive about 40 inches of rain annually, while the eastern regions receive less. The western regions have an Atlantic climate, while the eastern regions have a more continental climate
Ya, and even at 2.5x's normal water costs, that doesn't sound crazy expensive. I mean it is, but it isn't. If it's only 25% more I'd say that's basically nothing.
If they'd build the dams were taxed to build you wouldn't even need to.
Ill say it again. Ca. allows 90% of the rainwater to flow out directly into the ocean, dragging all the trash, street oil, you name it, into the ocean. Talk about an environmental disaster.
There is no 5 year period where there isn't more than enough rain/snow to more than satisfy all of the water needs and then some in this state. It gets back to the incompetence of leadership. It's that simple.
Newscum was actually proud of cutting off water supplies. Hey, people might not have homes and the entire city of Los Angeles almost burned downed, but hey, the salmon are plentiful.
Ill say it again. Ca. allows 90% of the rainwater to flow out directly into the ocean, dragging all the trash, street oil, you name it, into the ocean. Talk about an environmental disaster.
There is no 5 year period where there isn't more than enough rain/snow to more than satisfy all of the water needs and then some in this state. It gets back to the incompetence of leadership. It's that simple.
Newscum was actually proud of cutting off water supplies. Hey, people might not have homes and the entire city of Los Angeles almost burned downed, but hey, the salmon are plentiful.
The thread was cleaned up due to the political finger pointing and yet you continue with it. It’s a huge ****ing disaster and the finger pointing has no place right now.
Politicians run the response and are tasked with leading efforts to mitigate risk. There is no way not to have the discussion as to what they are doing or have done otherwise this thread would be elementary and redundant "hey another house burned down look".
Hydrants didn't work in high fire areas. It needs to be discussed. I can assure you in is everywhere out here.
Hydrants didn't work in high fire areas. It needs to be discussed. I can assure you in is everywhere out here.
And as I've noted, above, after their dry season, Cali is at about 10% of typical rain fall since Oct. So a dry climate in an unusually dry stretch. And then tack on 100 mph winds on top of it.
An extreme situation for sure.
That nothernmost point has to be the source, right? winds heading towards the shore. If so, then it looks like it started on some riding trail near this google maps point. If you click on google maps on one of teh fire spots on the map it changes the map mode to show so many reported fires in social.. here is that link
I do agree, the discussion is absolutely needed, but these discussions can become runaway narratives, my push back is more to focus the critiques to where they are well founded.
But even in the case of hydrants not working. They were running at 4x normal levels for 15 straight hours. At some point even the most prepared will be overwhelmed.
Similar would be current lift requirements in flood zones. Currently you have to be 9 ft(or something like that) in Highlands NJ, because that would put you above Sandy levels. Bulkheads in town are at such and such levels. Great you have prepared. But what if the next big one comes in at 15 ft?
It’s not just the dry weather thats the problem. Another factor is LA had its second wettest two day period ever in February. January saw 200% of its average rainfalls. The vegetation that grew as a result of these rain is now dry and they do a very bad job of clearing it as has been covered.
I can't speak to floods. That's a small thing here. Fires though, we can and will be much better prepared next time. This will be on the the forefront of minds of citizens, pols, and voters moving forward.
I haven't spoken to one resident of any political persuasion who feels any differently. It's not really a political discussion. It's a leadership competence discussion.
was not aware they used electricity on the fire hydrants. Props to Newsome for pointing that out
The situation in Cali is the product of a century or more of poor management of growth and water use by politicians and people of all stripes and the specific meteorological conditions that fed this event have absolutely been exacerbated by climate change. It's not surprising that there are insane wildfires in a desert filled with millions of people consuming all of the water and we're going to see more of it all over the SW US in years to come.
The kind of localized SoCal drought seen over the past several months, where LA has only received 0.16 inches of rain since October, more than four inches below average, is very unusual (there would be no fires right now with typical precip this past fall), as is the strength of the Santa Ana winds, and both combined with the increase in cycles of severe droughts and heavy rains, where the last few years of heavy rains have fed an explosion of vegetative growth, leading to abnormally high dry fuel levels, led to this unprecedented wildfire risk and outcome.
All of the above doesn't mean people shouldn't be questioning the role of the Federal/State/Local governments in possible mismanagement, including poor preparations and in-event response/execution - those things should always be evaluated - but the knee jerk response by posters blaming everything on politicians is premature and not particularly helpful. The focus now should be on bringing the fires under control and saving lives, homes and businesses, with an in-depth after-action review once that's done.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0ewe4p9128o
https://www.washingtonpost.com/weat...lisades-fire-california-windstorm-conditions/
The kind of localized SoCal drought seen over the past several months, where LA has only received 0.16 inches of rain since October, more than four inches below average, is very unusual (there would be no fires right now with typical precip this past fall), as is the strength of the Santa Ana winds, and both combined with the increase in cycles of severe droughts and heavy rains, where the last few years of heavy rains have fed an explosion of vegetative growth, leading to abnormally high dry fuel levels, led to this unprecedented wildfire risk and outcome.
All of the above doesn't mean people shouldn't be questioning the role of the Federal/State/Local governments in possible mismanagement, including poor preparations and in-event response/execution - those things should always be evaluated - but the knee jerk response by posters blaming everything on politicians is premature and not particularly helpful. The focus now should be on bringing the fires under control and saving lives, homes and businesses, with an in-depth after-action review once that's done.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0ewe4p9128o
https://www.washingtonpost.com/weat...lisades-fire-california-windstorm-conditions/
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Not surprising that every post you make on this is political - these should be deleted as should this response and the silly political avatars and sig lines should also not be allowed if the site doesn't want political content. @DJ Spanky
It's also interesting that many of the posters excoriating Cali government officials in this case were somehow silent this past summer when catastrophic hurricanes ravaged Florida, Georgia and the Carolinas - nobody was blaming the terrible flooding in multiple states and especially NW NC, for example, on the government when record rainfalls hit, likely exacerbated by global warming, which has been shown already to make for more severe hurricanes (not more of them, but more severe ones, as warmer air holds more water, which means more rain).
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That's what you get for holding a gun to Rachel Ward's head in Against All Odds.
Seriously, though, the celebrity loss angle is interesting not because they are celebrities.. but its because we have a feeling we know them.. we recognize them.. sometimes, we liked them... appreciate their art... so feeling something for them is feeling something for everyone in that situation.. it is just easier to recognize that feeling with celebrities.
And the "no insurance" thing? When the rich and successful and famous cannot get insurance at any price... it they are fk'd.. we all are.. right?
But you posted political content too... is this like weather threads in that you are just upset someone beat you to it?
What in the world are you talking about - discussing the obvious incompetence on display is not politicizing anything. It is simply identifying the clear issues with the planning and response to this catastrophe. You are the one using politics to shut me up. It wont work.
No, that was a mistake - I had intended to post that last paragraph in my reply to Cali's political rant and I've edited both posts. My main post has no political content now.
I just read a post from him that was all political !
No offense but fvck you. You don't live here. I do. You don't know one person impacted by this. I know many. Go make moronic weather threads you get mocked in.
To be fair, I get sucked into doing that same thing. Someone sticks political content.. with which I may disagree, in a thread and when I respond with political content they, or their ilk, calls me out. But I'm just responding... and, to my way of thinking, providing context.. or correcting... a community note, if you like. And they call me out but not the political post to which I just replied. It is classic censoring.. their propaganda is allowed.. but commenting on their political propaganda... oh no.. cannot have that.
The problem here is he calls out the posting of political content AND he adds political content. He tagged a mod with it and probably REPORTED it too.
Choose one:
Call it out and never do it yourself..
or
Don't call it out and join in, respond..
or
ignore it all
Everyone should be outraged over what is happening over there and should be challenging those in charge . The posters bending over backwards defending their favorite politicians is beyond stupid .
Agreed. By far its the costliest category in large fire suppression, and among the more dangerous. There's likely a separate air attack traffic control aircraft circling well above the fire ops airspace. And add to that, it's not very far from LAX. Visibility sucks too. I'm a licensed pilot (though inactive) and it makes me shudder.
Maybe the electricity to pump water to the tanks which feed the hydrants?
Klamath River is a very very long way from LA, near border with Oregon. There's no way to get that water to LA.Damn was removed and Native American land was given back
2800 acres returned to Sashta Indians
Shasta Indian Nation to get homeland back in largest land return in California history
Gov. Gavin Newsom has set in motion the return of ancestral lands to the Shasta Indian Nation that were seized a century ago and submerged.www.latimes.com
Man what an odd factor to consider. Too much rain a year ago helped lead to this. Its tough.
He's made countless political posts in this thread. I made one in response and even called for it to be deleted. Big difference IMO.
Wait a minute. Gov Newsome's statement is way out of context.
@e5fdny can chime in, but I am not aware of any fire hydrants that rely on electricity to supply water.
100% of the ones I have worked with, in multiple states and departments operate on water pressure from the municipal supply system.
I made posts on the incompetence I, as an LA resident who has many friends who have lost everything, am seeing and have seen.
If NimberSan can't handle that and it's too much for his big little sensitive ego, he should put me on ignore. In fact, I encourage it.
If NimberSan can't handle that and it's too much for his big little sensitive ego, he should put me on ignore. In fact, I encourage it.
you are comparing a hurricane to a fire? One can be controlled by humans, the other can't.
I have friends and family in the LA area including a couple who had to evacuate. I can't imagine how difficult it's been for them or you and I wish you and other posters on the area the best and should have posted that first. I just think the politics should come later not now.
I've strived to keep politics out of this, but let's be real. The Gov and the Mayor of LA are jokes. That budget I posted above is criminal to spend that much on homeless and cutting the fire budget in such a fire prone area. That's my opinion, which is certainly different from yours and others, and that is what is great about this wonderful country. We can agree to disagree. As far as Florida and NC, I'd have to look into that, but don't think anyone in the NC mountains ever expected to get walloped by a hurricane.
More facts on how incredible high Ca and LA taxes are being spent. $200MM of the $800MM fire budget was spent on prevention. We've spend $25B on illegal aliens. This is annually.
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www.fairus.org
Germany and Austria do not exist in a frequent fire ecosystem as is found in CA. "Natural" fire (if anything is natural anymore) there burns every 5-15 years and the vegetation has evolved with it. Then we built our cities, thinking we would control the fires. And we do most of the time.
I don't get the "no politics" rule. The fires happened yes, but by all accounts it appears that due to the gross negligence of California and its leaders and their policies has contributed to it and made it worse than what it should have been. People are in charge of things and when things fail someone is likely to be at fault... no different than any organization or company. Its all part of the discussion.
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