ADVERTISEMENT

OT: Eternal Lawn Care Thread

Take console in you're not the only one. If I was an Ant farmer I'd be a millionaire. Not sure what I'm doing to make such a habitable habitat for them, but I've got it done pat.

I can live with the ant mounds. It's the damn moles digging tunnels, ground hogs, and deer that are ruining my lawn spring seed patch job. I graded & leveled off a bunch of ruts in my backyard. No bobcat, all shoveling into an 8yd cart. holy cow was that a lot of work.

on a side note, I never tried to do a vegetable garden before this year but apparently I can grow vegetables. who knew I could grow grass and veggies! thank you coronavirus
 
I'm trying to grow my own KBG patches in a tray but the &%@#*÷£ squirrels keep digging it up. I'm at the sprout & pout phase so I should have some viable plugs for fall. I have patches of poa triv I will be uking or digging out and will be throwing down pre-emergent this fall to help with the poa annua. Got rid of the chickweed and violets, not seeing any more stiltgrass on my side of the yard, so I'm making progress.

Nutsedge starting to make its appearance now.
I hear you! I do about 12 KBG pots, 10” each, several times a year for patching. Damn squirrels dig them up so if I’m not around I put them on a balcony or inside. Have the same triv problems...Good luck!
 
I can live with the ant mounds. It's the damn moles digging tunnels, ground hogs, and deer that are ruining my lawn spring seed patch job. I graded & leveled off a bunch of ruts in my backyard. No bobcat, all shoveling into an 8yd cart. holy cow was that a lot of work.
Well on the bright side, it might help your golf game! I hear you with the deer problem...sucks.
 
I'm trying to grow my own KBG patches in a tray but the &%@#*÷£ squirrels keep digging it up. I'm at the sprout & pout phase so I should have some viable plugs for fall. I have patches of poa triv I will be uking or digging out and will be throwing down pre-emergent this fall to help with the poa annua. Got rid of the chickweed and violets, not seeing any more stiltgrass on my side of the yard, so I'm making progress.

Nutsedge starting to make its appearance now.

I hear you! I do about 12 KBG pots, 10” each, several times a year for patching. Damn squirrels dig them up so if I’m not around I put them on a balcony or inside. Have the same triv problems...Good luck!

I'm still learning about lawns this year, but why is Poa Triv so bad for your lawn? does it start to take over?
Thanks to PHS the Ortho CCO killed off all the chickweed that was creeping in from the woods, but then I had bare patches of dirt from killing it off. I'm planning on overseeding in the fall.
 
Probably get out Tuesday or Wednesday morning if that works for you. Played three times this week, had enough strokes for four rounds...

I can get out Tues morning. Let me know what time you put in for and I will call the proshop and add myself.
 
I'm still learning about lawns this year, but why is Poa Triv so bad for your lawn? does it start to take over?
Thanks to PHS the Ortho CCO killed off all the chickweed that was creeping in from the woods, but then I had bare patches of dirt from killing it off. I'm planning on overseeding in the fall.

Poa trivialis is in the blue grass family but is a real problem in a lawn or golf course. It is lighter in color than KBG and grows faster so it stands out. It goes dormant in the heat and looks like hell but doesn’t die. Spreads very aggressively. There was no selective herbicide to kill it other than velocity, and just the last few months, Poacure (methozolin.) They no longer make velocity. Poacure is promising but only recently for use on sod farms and golf courses.
 
I can live with the ant mounds. It's the damn moles digging tunnels, ground hogs, and deer that are ruining my lawn spring seed patch job. I graded & leveled off a bunch of ruts in my backyard. No bobcat, all shoveling into an 8yd cart. holy cow was that a lot of work.

on a side note, I never tried to do a vegetable garden before this year but apparently I can grow vegetables. who knew I could grow grass and veggies! thank you coronavirus
Moles- we have a problem with them whenever we take down trees and regrade out areas for new pastures. Probably easy digging now that I've done all the work breaking up the soil.

Ground hogs- we have them but they tend to stay in the woods near the fields but do come out to munch on all the flowers. My Great Pyrenees have chased them out of all the fields as Savannah is an excellent digger so they don't mess with her.

Deer- again our dogs have kept them out of most areas. But the Green Giant Arborvitaes are not deer resistant like they're listed. Our dogs can't go in the front yard along the street front. Where my Pole Barn shop lights don't reach I've had to start spraying deer repellant. Not exactly happy about that one, But it's only 5 out of the 30 we planted.

Holes/Ruts-[roll] Don't buy and free-range chickens. Those fvckers have to have a new dust bath everyday. They also like to go after the moles. The only reason I put up with them is because their eggs are a big seller plus we don't have a rat problem they pounce on those. They've made one area of my pasture look like a WWI battlefield.
 
  • Like
Reactions: red sail
Poa trivialis is in the blue grass family but is a real problem in a lawn or golf course. It is lighter in color than KBG and grows faster so it stands out. It goes dormant in the heat and looks like hell but doesn’t die. Spreads very aggressively. There was no selective herbicide to kill it other than velocity, and just the last few months, Poacure (methozolin.) They no longer make velocity. Poacure is promising but only recently for use on sod farms and golf courses.
I didn't realize how annoying poa triv was until I saw how my lawn looked like a mixed shaded property, except it is in full sun! I cannot unsee it now. And it grows faster so the lighter green triv really stands out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: red sail
I didn't realize how annoying poa triv was until I saw how my lawn looked like a mixed shaded property, except it is in full sun! I cannot unsee it now. And it grows faster so the lighter green triv really stands out.
Yea, the worst thing is noticing it, then you can’t unsee it like you say!!
 
I didn't realize how annoying poa triv was until I saw how my lawn looked like a mixed shaded property, except it is in full sun! I cannot unsee it now. And it grows faster so the lighter green triv really stands out.
Don't do what I did and try to spot treat it with Roundup. Worst lawn mistake ever. As posted above, I turned the fertilization over to a service. Best move I have made with respect to my lawn.
 
I thought how hard could it be to grow some grass... drop some seed, water and watch it grow ... easy peasey! I don't think its rained in CNJ in 2 weeks. are we in a drought? all the dirt patches I re-seeded in the spring looks like brown hay now! ugh. what a waste of seed and time. LOL
In fact my whole lawn starting to turn brownish. I guess I need a sprinkler system or a good rain
 
I thought how hard could it be to grow some grass... drop some seed, water and watch it grow ... easy peasey! I don't think its rained in CNJ in 2 weeks. are we in a drought? all the dirt patches I re-seeded in the spring looks like brown hay now! ugh. what a waste of seed and time. LOL
In fact my whole lawn starting to turn brownish. I guess I need a sprinkler system or a good rain


seeding always best in September to early October
 
  • Like
Reactions: rurichdog
Sussex has gotten more rain than most of NJ since Spring, but NJ overall is in a long dry spell

Seems like all of the drenching rain always goes north through NY State.
 
Last edited:
I thought how hard could it be to grow some grass... drop some seed, water and watch it grow ... easy peasey! I don't think its rained in CNJ in 2 weeks. are we in a drought? all the dirt patches I re-seeded in the spring looks like brown hay now! ugh. what a waste of seed and time. LOL
In fact my whole lawn starting to turn brownish. I guess I need a sprinkler system or a good rain
It is most likely dormant, not dead. That's what cool season grasses do in summer, especially when it hasn't rained in 2 weeks.
 
@Knight Shift have you seen "Dinosaurs in Allaire" yet? It's in the new section of Allaire State Park off Allenwood Rd. by you. My neighbor just saw them and said they're really cool. Women took dead branches and trees and made life size Dinosaurs out of them. Apparently the Park staff saw her doing it and said keep going we love it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: thegock
@Knight Shift have you seen "Dinosaurs in Allaire" yet? It's in the new section of Allaire State Park off Allenwood Rd. by you. My neighbor just saw them and said they're really cool. Women took dead branches and trees and made life size Dinosaurs out of them. Apparently the Park staff saw her doing it and said keep going we love it.
Yeah. One woman did it.

Quite an interesting story about her. Very nice to see people take a lot of negative energy and turn it into something positive. The world and especially this country could use more people like her right now. Focus on the positive and things that make others feel better about themselves. If you watch the video, it is very moving. She is a beautiful person. She said in the video, the woods is like my church--preach on sister!

https://www.app.com/picture-gallery...urs-discovered-deep-woods-allaire/4964509002/

https://amp.app.com/videos/news/local/people/2020/03/12/dinosaurs-allaire-state-park/4967992002/

It is somewhat difficult to locate. You can get there from the campgrounds. For me, I follow the mountain bike trail that is parallel to the Garden State Parkway, and I run right into it. They are quite awesome, and it can get pretty crowded.
 
When should I throw down pre-emergent to reduce next year's crop of Poa annua? Are we talking early September? October? I've never done this fall pre-emergent cycle.
 
When should I throw down pre-emergent to reduce next year's crop of Poa annua? Are we talking early September? October? I've never done this fall pre-emergent cycle.
Early September. You’re right, the fall pre-emergent is key to fighting Poa annua. I’ll do mine the first week of September except where I want to do some spot seeding (on those areas, I’ll do two applications of Mesotrione 30days apart, Dimension on the rest where I won’t spot seed.)
 
  • Like
Reactions: rurichdog
Read your weeds. Weeds are indicators of soil problems. If you have a lot of dandelions, you have a compaction problem. The dandelion has a deep tap root that tries to break up compacted soil. Conversely, if you have chickweed, your soil is too loose and lacks proper structure. Chickweed roots form a fine, shallow, mesh just under the soil surface that holds the soil together to prevent erosion.

Weed seeds can stay dormant for decades in your lawn! Don't fool yourself into thinking they can be eliminated with herbicides. There's practically an unlimited reserve of weed seeds in your soil. But (and this is the good news), they will only germinate if the soil needs them to. Regardless of how much you spray and pull, you will always get new weeds if your soil is unhealthy. Think of weeds as nature's scabs. They're trying to fix the problem.

There's lots of info out there about reading your weeds. This is just one:
https://www.homestead.org/flowers-horticulture/look-to-the-weeds/
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: miket007
Read your weeds. Weeds are indicators of soil problems. If you have a lot of dandelions, you have a compaction problem. The dandelion has a deep tap root that tried to break up compacted soil. Conversely, if you have chickweed, your soil is too loose and lacks proper structure. Chickweed roots form a fine mesh under the soil that holds the soil together to prevent erosion.

Weed seeds can stay dormant for decades in your lawn! Don't fool yourself into thinking they can be eliminated with herbicides. There's practically an unlimited reserve of weed seeds in your soil. But (and this is the good news), they will only germinate if the soil needs them to. Regardless of how much you spray and pull, you will always get new weeds if your soil is unhealthy. Think of weeds as nature's scabs. They're trying to fix the problem.

There's lots of info out there about reading your weeds. This is just one:
https://www.homestead.org/flowers-horticulture/look-to-the-weeds/

wow. Thank you for that write up! A lot of great info there.
 
What are you fellas thoughts on Scott's Summerguard? Thinking about putting this down for protection against the heat the rest of the summer while also feeding it.
 
What are you fellas thoughts on Scott's Summerguard? Thinking about putting this down for protection against the heat the rest of the summer while also feeding it.

i did this. I subscribed to a full Scotts annual program and I put down what they send me. Yard still looks like crap with crabgrass and a ton of brown splotches. Need rain badly.
 
  • Like
Reactions: miket007
What are you fellas thoughts on Scott's Summerguard? Thinking about putting this down for protection against the heat the rest of the summer while also feeding it.
In the heat of the summer, grasses go dormant. Synthetic fertilizers stimulate growth which will only increase the stress on your lawn. Most of that fertilizer is going to end up in your local watershed anyway. Don't bother.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RUDead and miket007
What are you fellas thoughts on Scott's Summerguard? Thinking about putting this down for protection against the heat the rest of the summer while also feeding it.
i did this. I subscribed to a full Scotts annual program and I put down what they send me. Yard still looks like crap with crabgrass and a ton of brown splotches. Need rain badly.

While I haven't subscribed to their annual program I have been dropping their recommended products every 30-40 days since early April. Just put down the Summerguard yesterday.

I do notice my lawn is currently greener than my neighbor's and they have a sprinkler system and a landscaper. I have neither. The weed and feed stopped my clover infestation cold and since I used the pre emergent very early I haven't had near the crabgrass I've seen in the past.

So far I just can't argue with what seems to work.
 
What are you fellas thoughts on Scott's Summerguard? Thinking about putting this down for protection against the heat the rest of the summer while also feeding it.

As you can tell from this thread, there are many different philosophies here on lawn care with respect to fertilization, use of chemicals, aeration, etc. I don’t think there is a single approach that is for everyone.

Personally, I almost never use synthetic fertilizer and also don’t fertilize in July or most of August due to potential stress. In my opinion, it’s hard to comment on one single application; it’s better to look at your overall annual lawn care program. Virtually all University extension and turf programs recommend the majority of nitrogen to be dropped in the Fall. I think I posted some links to Rutgers Turf program on fertilization and lawn care earlier in this thread.
If you have a grub problem or other pest problem you can address that with a product that doesn’t include fertilizer.

All in all, I probably wouldn’t use the product you mention in this heat. If you already did it, though, don’t sweat it too much and try to irrigate. This heat and lack of rain makes it tough. Best of luck!
 
While I haven't subscribed to their annual program I have been dropping their recommended products every 30-40 days since early April. Just put down the Summerguard yesterday.

I do notice my lawn is currently greener than my neighbor's and they have a sprinkler system and a landscaper. I have neither. The weed and feed stopped my clover infestation cold and since I used the pre emergent very early I haven't had near the crabgrass I've seen in the past.

So far I just can't argue with what seems to work.
Your lawn, your $, but I thought I'd let u know that the clover you're trying to kill is fertilizing your lawn for free. Clover is a legume. All legumes fix atmospheric nitrogen directly into the soil. The broad leaves of clover shade the soil surface, reducing soil temperatures, which help the soil retain water.
I've intentionally planted clover seed along with my grass, and I never have to use synthetics, or water as much as my neighbors.
Clover has been vilified by the fertilizer companies. I welcome it with open arms.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RUDead
Do you have dry, sandy soil?
You betcha.

We've been slowly amending the soil with fish emulsion, wood ash, horse, pig and chicken poop. It's just so void of nutrients. The guy who owned and proceeded to run down the farm did nothing but plant, plant, plant never replenishing.

Every time we do a project we work up a pile of dirt, mix with all of the above throw in grass clippings and weeds, cover with plastic. Turn it over a couple times and in a year have good top soil. We get about two to three tandem loads a year from this process. Then grade an area with the new top soil. I'm almost 3/4's way complete on 8 acres.

Once a pasture is complete and fenced the animals are thrown on and natural fertilization occurs. Then it's just a yearly reseeding with pasture mix. When you have this much land you don't care what grows, only that it's green and edible for your animals. So chemical use is a big no-no everywhere except the fenced in fruit orchard.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Knight Shift
I thought how hard could it be to grow some grass... drop some seed, water and watch it grow ... easy peasey! I don't think its rained in CNJ in 2 weeks. are we in a drought? all the dirt patches I re-seeded in the spring looks like brown hay now! ugh. what a waste of seed and time. LOL
In fact my whole lawn starting to turn brownish. I guess I need a sprinkler system or a good rain

Doesn't matter how much rain you have. Its the heat. If you seed in May by June the seedlings are up but can't take the heat no matter how much you water. Try early Set thru October for best results.
 
Doesn't matter how much rain you have. Its the heat. If you seed in May by June the seedlings are up but can't take the heat no matter how much you water. Try early Set thru October for best results.
This I can attest to, do to complete failure when I 1st bought my farm. I knew jack sh*t at that point. We ripped out trees, overgrown weeds which had turned into trees but didn't get it complete till early June.

Decided I need some type of cover on the acre and planted seed. Busted my ass moving sprinklers around for a month only to watch my grass burn and die in August. A back breaking lesson in only plant in mid-March or late September. I was completely pissed off at the time.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: red sail
You betcha.

We've been slowly amending the soil with fish emulsion, wood ash, horse, pig and chicken poop. It's just so void of nutrients. The guy who owned and proceeded to run down the farm did nothing but plant, plant, plant never replenishing.

Every time we do a project we work up a pile of dirt, mix with all of the above throw in grass clippings and weeds, cover with plastic. Turn it over a couple times and in a year have good top soil. We get about two to three tandem loads a year from this process. Then grade an area with the new top soil. I'm almost 3/4's way complete on 8 acres.

Once a pasture is complete and fenced the animals are thrown on and natural fertilization occurs. Then it's just a yearly reseeding with pasture mix. When you have this much land you don't care what grows, only that it's green and edible for your animals. So chemical use is a big no-no everywhere except the fenced in fruit orchard.
Have you ever heard of Joel Salatin? What are your thoughts on his methods of farming?
 
Have you ever heard of Joel Salatin? What are your thoughts on his methods of farming?
Yes. He's a big proponent of buy local. We also subscribe to the rotational grazing methods. He uses nature to do all the work instead of chemicals. Like having his chickens go into fields with his cows and removing parasites from their fecal matter. We use the same principles as the chickens rip the poop apart they spread it out. @BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap preaches the same principles whenever we get into these discussions on land management.

We try to be as organic as we can and make nature work for us. However, in certain instances it's simply not possible. Like the fruit orchard. Between Plum Curculio's and Apple Cedar Rust our orchard was getting decimated year after year to the point of no crops. There was no organic remedy and we tried several. So the decision was made we either spray or have no crops and just scrap it. We fenced it off and decided to spray. But I can regulate the sprays and use chemicals which degrade. So by time you eat that peach or apple it's been 28 days and they degrade in 10 to 14 days.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HPNJRUfan
You betcha.

We've been slowly amending the soil with fish emulsion, wood ash, horse, pig and chicken poop. It's just so void of nutrients. The guy who owned and proceeded to run down the farm did nothing but plant, plant, plant never replenishing.

Every time we do a project we work up a pile of dirt, mix with all of the above throw in grass clippings and weeds, cover with plastic. Turn it over a couple times and in a year have good top soil. We get about two to three tandem loads a year from this process. Then grade an area with the new top soil. I'm almost 3/4's way complete on 8 acres.

Once a pasture is complete and fenced the animals are thrown on and natural fertilization occurs. Then it's just a yearly reseeding with pasture mix. When you have this much land you don't care what grows, only that it's green and edible for your animals. So chemical use is a big no-no everywhere except the fenced in fruit orchard.
Your ants are filling the niche of earthworms. Since earthworms don't do well in dry, sandy soil, ants have taken over their job. Don't sweat it though. They're aerating the soil, helping to decompose organic matter, controlling pests, and cycling nutrients. As your soil organic matter increases, so will your earthworm population, and your ants will slowly disappear.

You also mentioned turning over your soil after you amend with manure, ash, etc.. Those are all awesome inputs, and I'm sure you want them to stay in your soil. When you turn the soil/till/plow, you rapidly inject the soil with oxygen. That quick, massive dose of oxygen wakes up bacteria called r-strategists (or r-selected bacteria). With this massive dose of oxygen, these bacteria quickly multiply and feast on all of that organic matter that you put into the soil. A lot of it, your N, P, K and most importantly, your CARBON (organic matter), then goes up into the atmosphere. Your $$$$ too.
After you incorporate those nutrients, why turn/till again? With each tillage pass you're losing nutrients and organic matter. I'm sure it's a lot of work too.
Hope I'm not coming across as bossy. It's just a subject I'm very passionate about.
 
Your ants are filling the niche of earthworms. Since earthworms don't do well in dry, sandy soil, ants have taken over their job. Don't sweat it though. They're aerating the soil, helping to decompose organic matter, controlling pests, and cycling nutrients. As your soil organic matter increases, so will your earthworm population, and your ants will slowly disappear.

You also mentioned turning over your soil after you amend with manure, ash, etc.. Those are all awesome inputs, and I'm sure you want them to stay in your soil. When you turn the soil/till/plow, you rapidly inject the soil with oxygen. That quick, massive dose of oxygen wakes up bacteria called r-strategists (or r-selected bacteria). With this massive dose of oxygen, these bacteria quickly multiply and feast on all of that organic matter that you put into the soil. A lot of it, your N, P, K and most importantly, your CARBON (organic matter), then goes up into the atmosphere. Your $$$$ too.
After you incorporate those nutrients, why turn/till again? With each tillage pass you're losing nutrients and organic matter. I'm sure it's a lot of work too.
Hope I'm not coming across as bossy. It's just a subject I'm very passionate about.
I should have worded it better. While it's in the mulching pile breaking down is when I aerate it. It tends to break down the organic material quicker. Couple that with covering it with plastic and the process is expediated so that I can produce top soil in less than a year. Once it's in the pastures I don't till and simply reseed each year.
 
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT