Clover spreads and chokes out all good grass. That’s a silly statement. If you want a lawn that’s actual grass, kill large amounts of clover, or you won’t have any grass… just clover
OT: Eternal Lawn Care Thread
- Thread starter Knight Shift
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Your statement is quite wrong and a common misconception. Who told you that fable? Your landscaper? If your lawn and soil are healthy it will not crowd out grass. It will take over weeds in shitty soil conditions. When Clover takes over it’s telling you your landscaper sucks and I need to amend what he fvcked up.
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Nonsense. Where in nature do you see a monoculture? Nowhere.
In conjunction with soil biology, plants cooperate rather than compete. The soil is its own ecosystem, and ecosystems thrive on diversity.
Even "weeds" have a function in soil health. Plants that grow/reproduce quickly (aka weeds), are signs of poor soil health. Nature is attempting to fix those problems. Specific weeds are indicators of specific soil health problems. Got dandelions? You've got a compaction problem. Got clover? Low nitrogen. Etc..... Read your weeds!
@koleszar is correct that once soil health is established, weeds disappear. The weed seeds will be there (you can't get rid of them and they can stay dormant for decades), but they will not germinate if that particular soil health requirement is being met.
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it is funny- our lawn does suck as it is a rental and previous renters and the owner really never cared much. We moved in and had them fix the sprinkler system, we had our previous landscaper come in and fertilize and seed the lawn. Cost the owners about $3k. But they did it. They did best they could but after years of neglect, soil is very acidity. Last year- lawn was still very good but this year, we started to see the difference but is our last year hear so not going to care all to much except keeping it the way we like to live.
The good thing is...once we put the sprinkler system back on and weather got better, the healthy grass actually took over the clover, not the other way around.
So not perfect but looking acceptable.
I never thought that the lawn thread would turn into a fight thread.
If anyone screws with the new music thread, it's on.
Maybe this musical interlude can bring us all together?
If anyone screws with the new music thread, it's on.
Maybe this musical interlude can bring us all together?
Majority- of the threads here end up as a fight thread one way or another.....
I admire @BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap and his approach to chemical free and sustainable lawns. As far as @koleszar , he is on an island (a farm) where clover is not only acceptable, but safer for his livestock. But as @phs73rc77gsm83 pointed out (and @yesrutgers01 too), your average homeowner will not put in the time to researching an implementing a lawn in the way @BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap does a lawn, and unfortunately, clover has become an unwelcome component of most lawns even thought it has beneficial properties.
Many of us have our passions, but we cannot expect others to adhere to our principles for our passions. There is no need to fight over such discussions, and looking back, there was no real fighting, just staking out hard positions.
With the cost of fertilizer escalating quicker than inflation, I may consider a hybrid approach. I don't mind clover mixed in with my grass. That will likely be a semi-retirement or retirement project.
I'm trying to educate rather than be hostile and I apologize if I'm failing. 2 things I'm attempting to point out which many may be ignorant of:
1. The soil is a living ecosystem. Millions of years of evolutionary, symbiotic relationships are happening right under our feet. Trying to fight mother nature with synthetics is a losing battle and a costly$$$ one. Working with nature is the only way. History has taught us that civilizations that destroy their soil, destroy themselves.
2. When one chooses to use synthetic fertilizers, herbicides, pesticides, and fungicides, the impact of those products are not limited to their own property.
We share a similar goal for retirement projects. I'd like to completely get rid of my lawn and create a natural habitat with a variety of native grasses, legumes, and forbs. Some annuals too. Walking paths of woodchips throughout.
all good...I wasn't looking to undermine what you are saying but it did seem a couple of guys got more into it.
Under a different circumstance, I would be all for keeping the clover but in all seriousness- in some of our areas up here, it really is a huge no no for lawn care and hurst value.
On the other hand- I do prefer organic methods of care as I always worry about our pets.
Since you have a cool screen name and avatar, I assume you have a sense of humor. But your post reminded me of Mr. Van Driessen from Beavis and Butthead. In all seriousness, we all could be better stewards of the earth. Currently, we are at our home away from home in Sedona, AZ, and it is sad to see that the area, surrounded by National Forests, has become overrun with human destruction--litter (a lot of masks), graffiti on the red rocks, and the worst is the explosion of ATV adventurers, who are going off road, killing native plants and flora.
A few weeks after applying Yard Mastery starter fert (4/16 applied it) I noticed some brown tips on my lawn. It was strange the first 3" were green next 1" or so brown? Not in all areas either. The only thing new I've done this year is the starter fert that my soil test recommended, applied Prodiamine and my mower was new as well. I read up pretty good on the fert and it is not supposed to burn. I even weighed it out to make sure I didn't over fert. It could have been dull blades on my new Timemaster? I took them off and sharpened them about 3 weeks ago. The problem is gone now so all good. It was strange looking.
Spot sprayed some more Speedzone on clover and some weeds I did not want last week on a cool day. I know some like clover but its not for me. I want as much grass as possible and like it green. Applied some OceanGro today. The supply store near me hooked me up with a extra bag that was ripped. Had a tennis ball size hole in it but was still full the clerk said it's mine for free or it's getting tossed because of the rip. Score for me.
Spot sprayed some more Speedzone on clover and some weeds I did not want last week on a cool day. I know some like clover but its not for me. I want as much grass as possible and like it green. Applied some OceanGro today. The supply store near me hooked me up with a extra bag that was ripped. Had a tennis ball size hole in it but was still full the clerk said it's mine for free or it's getting tossed because of the rip. Score for me.
You can apply Mesotrione (the active ingredient in pre and post emergent in Starters that add a pre/post). And you an apply Mesotrione and prodiamine at the same time if measured correctly so I don’t think it’s that. Mower blades as you cite? Also could be a fungus, which can be patchy and not uniform. Great job on the Oceangro, which is great largely organic fert.
Anything I can do to prevent fungus? Scotts Disease X? If I put something like that down and it is not a fungus issue can it harm the lawn?
So far so good. The grass definitely sticks to the areas without the graphite paint more. I do use the blower on the bottom of the deck after each mow, but so far no thick clumps of grass on the treated areas.
Scott’s Diseasex has the active ingredient of azoxystrobin. It is very good. Used based on the label you won’t damage your lawn. You should alternate “classes” of fungicides to guard against resistance. Here is a great reference from Rutgers.
If your brown tips went away after sharpening your blades, I'd guess that was it. Dull mower blades split & rip grass blades, and they turn brown at the site of the damage.
Just want to add that damage caused by dull blades also makes your grass much more susceptible to disease and fungal infection. Before anything else, keep your blades sharp.
Once again folks I'm going to suggest you read the labels before you spray those herbicides. Glyphosate which has been linked to causing cancer is in many of these like Roundup. New study with almost a third of the participants being between 6 to 18 showed that over 80% had detectable levels of glyphosate. You spray and they play in it.
So it has been a ruff year for my lawn. I was out of commission due to hernia surgery in beginning of June. Had others cut/try to maintain it. It was frustrating not being able to do it. Did my first cut last week by myself. I still am not sure if I had a fungus or my lawn just didnt get enough water. Was and still am dealing with twig like brown stalks of grass mixed in with healthy grass. Now is more then likely from heat and lack of rain. I've been watering in the mornings and notice some improvements. Question for others is has anyone used a product called Hydretain? Im wondering if it is worth it or not? Given only a month and a half left of summer Im not sure if I should wait till next season to try it out.
https://www.hydretain.com/
https://www.hydretain.com/
I used it last year. Seemed to help, but I wouldn't consider it a miracle product. Waterings seemed more effective, and the ground didn't feel overly compacted during long dry spells. I can definitely tell I didn't use it this year, as my lawn is Extra Crispy right now.
Used some SedgeHammer on the nutsedge two weeks ago, it worked on some and some it didn't. I may do a second app on Sunday. Mosquito's have been a big problem this year in my yard. Not to much lawn related but just sprayed the perimeter of my house and bushy areas with Talstar P. My first time using any kind of pesticide. Anyone ever use it before, if so how did it work?
It's incredible how there is still a mosquito problem even though it hasn't rained in forever. I've used the Cutter two pack from BJs in the past. Haven't used it in a few years because it killed *everything*. No more mosquitoes that summer, but also no more spiders or crickets. Probably did a number on any pollinators that stopped by the next day too 😕
We thought we were going to have a huge problem with mosquitos. Our farm is right next to a bog(wetlands) and that's always a breeding ground for them. But between the spring peepers(at night their vocals are quite boisterous), bats, purple martins and dragon flies we don't have a problem.
Noticed the spring peepers were quite silent in the Manasquan Wildlife Management area I ride through on my bike. They used to be very loud.
We have been mosquito free this summer, and we live across from the swamp end of the Manasquan River.
The active ingredient in Talstar is 7.9% Bifenthrin. You can save yourself some money in the future by purchasing Bifenthrin instead of Talstar, which is marketed by FMC out of Philadelphia.
it’s a good product but it’s been on the market for a while.
Ours can be deafening at times. We love the sound though, when we have an outdoor fire, it makes you feel like you're out camping in some rural place.
Grass has come back to life with the cooler weather and some rain. I seeded a few spots 3 weeks ago with some leftover Hogan seed from last year. This has been the worst season I can remember for my lawn due to lack of rain. I still have a few spots that haven't come back healthy. With no irrigation its tuff. Got a Melnor timer hooked up to portable sprinkler going 3 times a day for the spots I seeded. It's coming in nicely.
Threw down some Oceangro today now hoping for some rain later to water some of it in. This was my first year using Prodiamine in the spring and I had zero crabgrass, that stuff definitely works. I did a split application with it. I'm wondering if I should put some down in November so I have protection through the winter?
Threw down some Oceangro today now hoping for some rain later to water some of it in. This was my first year using Prodiamine in the spring and I had zero crabgrass, that stuff definitely works. I did a split application with it. I'm wondering if I should put some down in November so I have protection through the winter?
I'm looking to overseed with Delaware mix ASAP but the damn machine at home depot is broke smh. Waiting for that then i'll overseed then put down compost. Hopefully i can do this before the middle of October down here in Delaware.
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I'm waiting for my soil samples to come back before I do anything. It's been well over two weeks now. I'm starting to get pissed. Someone is going to hear my wrath if they're not in my hands this week.
Reseeded areas with Scotts Northeast mix mixed with perennial rye, Scott’s lawn soil, then peat moss in top
There are some weeds or grassy weeds (e.g., Poa Annua) that germinate in the fall but thrive in the spring. If you just did Prodiamine that should cover you to spring, assuming dosage was reasonable. An exception would be a very warm December like we had a few years ago. So another app wouldn’t hurt but might not be necessary.
I haven’t had crab grass in decades; a pre emergent when the forsythia blooms Does the trick (I too do a split application late June or early July..
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Perennial rye and fescue will germinate relatively quickly, Kentucky Blue Grass takes a bit longer. You may be okay and it will likely come up—the key is can it get established before the cold weather. Good luck!
Hogan seed is worth the money. Stuff is gold.
Hogan is great, as are other “Gold tag” seeds you won’t get a a box store. You really want “zero crop seed” and zero “weed seed.” Just a seemingly small percent of those is not worth it. Spend the money and get quality seed.
I just over seeded the property in late August and have good results. There are a few spots that could have had better germination but it is what it is and should be decent come spring. I am thinking about doing a dormant seeding just to give the lawn another boost come spring. Has anybody done this and got good results or is it a waste of time?
I am in Southern NJ and a few years ago overseeded in late August. The results were mixed. The last couple of years I waited until late September to overseed and I found the results better.
I tried a dormant overseeding as well a few years ago and honestly, I am not sure it helped. But I am certainly no expert so I could have effed it up. LOL.
You are the 2nd person I have heard mention Hogan. I have a mixed lawn due to crazy sun and shade areas (TF, KBG and a bit of rye) and I had a large bag of Jonathon Green so I used that last week in overseeding. But I think I want to try a higher quality seed next year. Have you used Hogan personally?
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