OT: Vendee Globe Has Begun!

[RU4Real]

Watching that boat flip it looks REALLY light.

Does it still flip if the sails are up (down)? Could the currents put pressure on the submerged sails and keep it from righting itself?

Generally speaking, the sails don't factor into the righting equation for a couple of reasons.

First, conditions in which the boat can be capsized (large, breaking waves) will be accompanied by wind speeds sufficient to have already caused a significant reduction in sail. Deeply reefed mainsails, or no main at all, along with the smallest jib on the boat. The idea being that as wind speeds go way up you have to reduce sail so that the yacht isn't overpowered and remains controllable.

Second, a rollover will usually trash the rig pretty well. Any sail that remains aloft will be shredded to pieces, the force of the breaking wave will break the mast and the whole thing mostly goes to shit.

When the boat rights itself, it's just dragging the broken remnants of the rig along with it.

This is for a complete rollover, as opposed to a "knockdown". In the case of a knockdown, either wind, waves or both will roll the boat past 90 degrees, putting the rig in the water but the force of a knockdown is often insufficient to destroy the rig. The boat will right itself by rolling back toward vertical without going completely over and the rig will remain intact with, typically, minor damage to sails and standing rigging.

 

[RU4Real]

This video (linked from the British publication Yachting World) shows a great example of a knockdown caused by a breaking wave. Note that the boat doesn't roll completely and that the rig is intact when it self-rights. Also note the two guys in the water, after the fact.

 

[RU4Real]

le Americain

The Vendee Globe, like much of professional ocean racing, is largely a French affair. This year's race is no exception, as no fewer than 21 of the 29 entrants are from France. The 2016 Vendee Globe is exceptional, then, only because there is a Japanese racer for the very first time in the history of the competition and because American Rich Wilson is taking his second shot at the Everest of sailing.

Rich Wilson is special because he's the only American in the race, true. But he's special for a number of other reasons, as well. He is, once again, the oldest competitor, at age 66. He is not, strictly speaking, a "professional sailor" - Wilson has an extensive and renowned sailing background, but he is an educator by vocation. Wilson also suffers from severe asthma and has a pathologically reduced lung capacity.

How Rich Wilson got to his first Vendee Globe, in 2008, is something of an anticlimactic story, in that it was to Wilson nothing more than an evolution of his pursuit of sailing as an educational tool - a means to teach young children that life has no boundaries and that one is limited only by the boundaries put on oneself.

Rich Wilson was born an asthmatic and, growing up in Marblehead, Massachusetts, was unable to engage in the same sort of athletic competition as other kids in the neighborhood. Determined to challenge himself, to make his 70% lung capacity as small a limitation as possible, he took up sailing at the local yacht club.

Fortunately, at least in the context of Wilson's narrative, he wasn't very good at dinghy racing. A consistent mid-pack finisher, he started looking for other sailing adventures that would fit both his talent and his lifestyle, as he pursued graduate degrees at Harvard and MIT.

In 1980 Wilson, along with 9 crewmates from the Marblehead area, became the youngest skipper ever to win the Newport to Bermuda yacht race. With that victory Rich Wilson knew that he had found his niche in the sailing world. To the extent that he was unsuccessful at buoy racing, he was a well and truly gifted ocean racer.

In 1990 he took a break from career teaching math in the Boston public school system to mount a challenge to the longstanding clipper record, from San Francisco to Boston via Cape Horn. Wilson and his teammate, veteran ocean racer Steve Pettengill, would sail a custom-built 60 foot trimaran and the event would be monitored by 250,000 school children via Wilson's newly-founded internet presence, sitesAlive.

Wilson and Pettengill's adventure ended in spectacular fashion on Thanksgiving day when, while battling 85 knot winds and 60 foot waves rounding the Horn, the trimaran Great America was pitchpoled and capsized. Wilson and Pettengill spent eighteen hours clinging to the hull of their boat before being rescued by the container ship New Zealand Pacific.

In the ensuing years Wilson built sitesAlive into a full-fledged educational tool to connect students with science via, as Wilson puts it, "great adventures of discovery". In 1993 he launched another attempt at the San Francisco to Boston clipper record aboard Great America II and succeeded in breaking it, on a journey followed by millions of students.

While the first Vendee Globe was run in 1989, it wasn't until the 2008 race that Rich Wilson was driven to bring his unique blend of ocean racing and education to Les Sables D'olonne. In his 60' IMOCA racer, Great American III, he was the oldest competitor at age 58 and ultimately finished 9th, out of 11 who completed the race and 30 who started. Along the way, Great American III was wired to millions of classrooms around the world with Wilson bringing regular updates and remote lessons on the subjects of oceanography, geography and biology.

Two weeks from today Rich Wilson will once again be the only American to break the starting line for the 8th running of the Vendee Globe. His boat, Great American IV, is the former Mirabaud which once belonged to veteran French sailor Dominique Wavre. The boat has rounded the world four times and is a proven thoroughbred. Rich Wilson, accompanied by his millions of school-aged followers, has hopes of sailing her to victory.

 

[RU4Real]

A Moveable Feast

The Vendee Globe is, first and foremost, an endurance event. Every aspect of an around-the-world yacht race challenges the limits of endurance of both man and machine. Both have to be fed, both have to be maintained. Feeding the machine is the easy part - the wind fills the sails, the sun fills the solar panels, the rush of water past the hull of the lightweight, 60 foot IMOCA yachts spins the turbine generators. Thus, power to drive the yacht and drive its electrical equipment is well taken care of.

But what about the man?

One of the greatest challenges the Vendee Globe sailors face is how to maintain their physical health over the course of, on average, eighty five days at sea. The average adult male consumes anywhere from 1,000 to 2,000 calories a day, depending on their metabolism and activity level. A VG sailor has to plan for 5,000 calories per day to maintain his body weight. That's a lot of food.

Provisioning an IMOCA racer is, as you might expect, a hell of a lot more complicated than provisioning a charter yacht for a week of Caribbean gunkholing. The better part of three months is a long time and limiting the weight of the boat is, arguably, the racer's number one priority. On average, total food provisioning is limited to about 300 pounds per boat. And while they may be highly sophisticated, the boats are not the least bit luxurious. They don't have the same sort of accommodations seen in the average cruising yacht and the galley facilities are rudimentary at best.

Generally speaking, the Vendee sailors have two choices for provisioning meals, vacuum packed and freeze dried. A few sailors opt for one or the other, but most will pack a combination of the two. Three months alone at sea can be boring in spite of the excitement of the race and varying the menu is one way to fight tedium and potential depression.

With the progress that freeze dried food has made in the last decade (largely inspired by the exploding "prepper" community) it's an option that's become much more appealing than when the first Vendee Globe was run in 1989. Freeze dried food has the additional advantage of being lighter, on a per meal basis, than vacuum packed meals and are also more durable.

But the Vendee Globe is, as we've already noted, a largely French affair and not even fundamental provisioning can escape the influences of the host nation. Racer Sebastien Josse, preparing for his third Vendee Globe, is taking along vacuum packed meals prepared by Michelin starred chef Julien Gatillon. For the duration of the voyage Josse will be able to reheat various creations of one of France's most renowned cooks.

But, either way they choose to go; vacuum packed, freeze dried or a combination of the two, meals on board a Vendee yacht all come down to "boil and eat. There's little to no fresh fruit, there's no fresh meat or fish. There's no cooking, per se. The onboard desalinator provides water and a simple one ring camp cookstove provides the means to boil it. To supplement the meals and help maintain calorie count, sailors pack things like candy and energy bars. These items also come in handy when the boats hit the often tortuous Southern Ocean, where conditions can make even the most simple cooking chores all but impossible.

And, lest we forget, the Vendee Globe runs through the traditional holiday season. Christmas at sea has always been something of an occasion to be planned for and the Vendee Globe is no exception. Nearly all of the sailors have some sort of special provisioning for a Christmas meal, which will often include some of their favorite holiday beverages, as well. Because, of course, there's always New Year's Eve.

 

[mildone]

A Moveable Feast

The Vendee Globe is, first and foremost, an endurance event. Every aspect of an around-the-world yacht race challenges the limits of endurance of both man and machine. Both have to be fed, both have to be maintained. Feeding the machine is the easy part - the wind fills the sails, the sun fills the solar panels, the rush of water past the hull of the lightweight, 60 foot IMOCA yachts spins the turbine generators. Thus, power to drive the yacht and drive its electrical equipment is well taken care of.

But what about the man?

One of the greatest challenges the Vendee Globe sailors face is how to maintain their physical health over the course of, on average, eighty five days at sea. The average adult male consumes anywhere from 1,000 to 2,000 calories a day, depending on their metabolism and activity level. A VG sailor has to plan for 5,000 calories per day to maintain his body weight. That's a lot of food.

Provisioning an IMOCA racer is, as you might expect, a hell of a lot more complicated than provisioning a charter yacht for a week of Caribbean gunkholing. The better part of three months is a long time and limiting the weight of the boat is, arguably, the racer's number one priority. On average, total food provisioning is limited to about 300 pounds per boat. And while they may be highly sophisticated, the boats are not the least bit luxurious. They don't have the same sort of accommodations seen in the average cruising yacht and the galley facilities are rudimentary at best.

Generally speaking, the Vendee sailors have two choices for provisioning meals, vacuum packed and freeze dried. A few sailors opt for one or the other, but most will pack a combination of the two. Three months alone at sea can be boring in spite of the excitement of the race and varying the menu is one way to fight tedium and potential depression.

With the progress that freeze dried food has made in the last decade (largely inspired by the exploding "prepper" community) it's an option that's become much more appealing than when the first Vendee Globe was run in 1989. Freeze dried food has the additional advantage of being lighter, on a per meal basis, than vacuum packed meals and are also more durable.

But the Vendee Globe is, as we've already noted, a largely French affair and not even fundamental provisioning can escape the influences of the host nation. Racer Sebastien Josse, preparing for his third Vendee Globe, is taking along vacuum packed meals prepared by Michelin starred chef Julien Gatillon. For the duration of the voyage Josse will be able to reheat various creations of one of France's most renowned cooks.

But, either way they choose to go; vacuum packed, freeze dried or a combination of the two, meals on board a Vendee yacht all come down to "boil and eat. There's little to no fresh fruit, there's no fresh meat or fish. There's no cooking, per se. The onboard desalinator provides water and a simple one ring camp cookstove provides the means to boil it. To supplement the meals and help maintain calorie count, sailors pack things like candy and energy bars. These items also come in handy when the boats hit the often tortuous Southern Ocean, where conditions can make even the most simple cooking chores all but impossible.

And, lest we forget, the Vendee Globe runs through the traditional holiday season. Christmas at sea has always been something of an occasion to be planned for and the Vendee Globe is no exception. Nearly all of the sailors have some sort of special provisioning for a Christmas meal, which will often include some of their favorite holiday beverages, as well. Because, of course, there's always New Year's Eve.

We typically packed various pre-made things using dry-ice on Ocean races. But during a windless Newport-Bermuda race, we ran out of that stuff and wound up heaving to eat our emergency rations (pictured above). Too heavy for the Vendee Globe, though.

I would bring a lot of nuts. Fairly light and packed with calories.

 

[RU4Real]

We typically packed various pre-made things using dry-ice on Ocean races. But during a windless Newport-Bermuda race, we ran out of that stuff and wound up heaving to eat our emergency rations (pictured above). Too heavy for the Vendee Globe, though.

I would bring a lot of nuts. Fairly light and packed with calories.

I suspect I'd probably provision with freeze dried food because, perversely, I actually like it. To supplement I'd go really heavy on commercial bars - granola bars, fruit bars, stuff like that. I love 'em all. I hate those soy-based "energy bars".

One thing I didn't mention is that in addition to provisioning for long duration, these guys also have to provision for different conditions. They're leaving France and sailing through the Bay of Biscay and down toward the equator in the winter. Within the space of a couple of weeks they'll go from European winter conditions to equatorial, summer conditions. After another few weeks they wind up in the Southern Ocean, where it's cold again. After rounding the Horn, they go through the same progression of seasons, in reverse. The caloric requirements are different, the performance of the galley equipment is different (those camp stoves don't work well when it's incredibly cold). All that has to be thought out, as well.

 

[RU4Real]

Interesting aside to the above - I'm re-reading my Moitessier and it's reminded me of another difference between what these guys are doing, today, and what Moitessier and King and those guys did 50 years ago.

They had to pack shit-tons of water, because the technology didn't exist to make it, but they didn't pack that much food. They fished.

Older race boats, like today's cruising boats, generally made somewhere between 6 and 8 knots. They're perfect for tossing a line off the back of the boat, just as they were 1000 years ago. Those guys caught fish every day.

Today's 60' IMOCA boats are making 20+ knots and more. When Rich Wilson bought Great American IV, ex-Mirabaud, Dominique Wavre told him that in the last Vendee the boat registered a high speed of 35.7 knots.

You're not catching any fish at that speed.

 

[mildone]

Interesting aside to the above - I'm re-reading my Moitessier and it's reminded me of another difference between what these guys are doing, today, and what Moitessier and King and those guys did 50 years ago.

They had to pack shit-tons of water, because the technology didn't exist to make it, but they didn't pack that much food. They fished.

Older race boats, like today's cruising boats, generally made somewhere between 6 and 8 knots. They're perfect for tossing a line off the back of the boat, just as they were 1000 years ago. Those guys caught fish every day.

Today's 60' IMOCA boats are making 20+ knots and more. When Rich Wilson bought Great American IV, ex-Mirabaud, Dominique Wavre told him that in the last Vendee the boat registered a high speed of 35.7 knots.

You're not catching any fish at that speed.

Learning to like fish is a part of my live on a boat in BVI plan. Because, well, it's readily available, somewhat nutritious and more or less free (minus bait and cooking expenses).

I have a feeling that part of my plan might go unrealized though. Seafood. Ew.

 

[RU4Real]

Learning to like fish is a part of my live on a boat in BVI plan. Because, well, it's readily available, somewhat nutritious and more or less free (minus bait and cooking expenses).

I have a feeling that part of my plan might go unrealized though. Seafood. Ew.

Oh, man... it's my favorite thing to do. I used to throw a line off the back of the 105. All the guys (who were basically lifelong buoy racers graduated from J/24) thought I was insane. I used to reel in blues with the same regularity that most people scratch their balls. My vision of a crossing is that there's at least one trolling line off the stern rail at all times.

So I've been reasonably focused on Yachtworld the last couple weeks. At a high level, it would appear that I'm most drawn to the Endeavor 35 & 33 and the Cape Dory 33. At my price point, they come completely restored, updated electronics, in most cases re-engined and set up for single-handing.

 

[mildone]

Oh, man... it's my favorite thing to do. I used to throw a line off the back of the 105. All the guys (who were basically lifelong buoy racers graduated from J/24) thought I was insane. I used to reel in blues with the same regularity that most people scratch their balls. My vision of a crossing is that there's at least one trolling line off the stern rail at all times.

So I've been reasonably focused on Yachtworld the last couple weeks. At a high level, it would appear that I'm most drawn to the Endeavor 35 & 33 and the Cape Dory 33. At my price point, they come completely restored, updated electronics, in most cases re-engined and set up for single-handing.

I haven't fished since my grandmother took me out on a fishing boat in Florida when I was very young.

I know you know this, but the real expense of a sailboat isn't purchasing it. It's the upkeep, yacht club fees, etc. At least, by avoiding the whole bay racing thing, you avoid the constant expense of new sails, new lines, and so forth, not to mention periodically buying the crew meals.

Where would you keep the boat?

 

[RU4Real]

I haven't fished since my grandmother took me out on a fishing boat in Florida when I was very young.

I know you know this, but the real expense of a sailboat isn't purchasing it. It's the upkeep, yacht club fees, etc. At least, by avoiding the whole bay racing thing, you avoid the constant expense of new sails, new lines, and so forth, not to mention periodically buying the crew meals.

Where would you keep the boat?

Yep. In fact, my old crew just shredded the big spin on the boat this past weekend. The first thing I thought was "that's a few grand down the drain".

The closest club to me, in terms of driving time, is Keyport. Highlands is further, although it has the advantage of being closer to blue water. Probably one of those two.

 

[mildone]

Yep. In fact, my old crew just shredded the big spin on the boat this past weekend. The first thing I thought was "that's a few grand down the drain".

The closest club to me, in terms of driving time, is Keyport. Highlands is further, although it has the advantage of being closer to blue water. Probably one of those two.

In one Annapolis-Newport race we did, we had the wind at our backs right after the start and had to jibe very early in the race (like within 30 minutes or so of the start). Only problem is we were all distracted and had forgotten to unhook the baby-stay on the Cal 40. So when we jibed, the spinnaker pole broke a foot or so out from the mast as it crossed the baby-stay. Oops.

We trimmed the chute without a pole for a few hours while the owner sat on deck and cut off 18", and reattached the fittings.

Then, at some point later that evening or the next day, I forget which, we were on a broad reach (the boat's best performing point of sail) and the wind was building very quickly. We were hauling ass. It occurred to us that we ought to peel from the half-ounce to the three-quarter ounce chute and just after that occurred to us, we crested a roller, caught a wind gust as we dove down the wave, and blew out one of the corners of the half-ounce chute. Oops.

So the owner, who was off-watch when this happened, sat up on deck and sewed it up to repair it to be ready for when the wind lighted again. He was sitting there sewing for hours. Needless to say, he was less than pleased.

The conditions for this race were about as perfect as could be for the Cal-40, mostly running and broad reaches the whole race. So we wound up coming in second in class, and I think third overall, even with the shortened pole. But we should have won the class easily, so any celebration was muted.

Meanwhile, the owner was probably out 5-10K for a new chute and new carbon fiber pole. He still bought the crew a meal. A good guy.

 

[RU4Real]

In one Annapolis-Newport race we did, we had the wind at our backs right after the start and had to jibe very early in the race (like within 30 minutes or so of the start). Only problem is we were all distracted and had forgotten to unhook the baby-stay on the Cal 40. So when we jibed, the spinnaker pole broke a foot or so out from the mast as it crossed the baby-stay. Oops.

We trimmed the chute without a pole for a few hours while the owner sat on deck and cut off 18", and reattached the fittings.

Then, at some point later that evening or the next day, I forget which, we were on a broad reach (the boat's best performing point of sail) and the wind was building very quickly. We were hauling ass. It occurred to us that we ought to peel from the half-ounce to the three-quarter ounce chute and just after that occurred to us, we crested a roller, caught a wind gust as we dove down the wave, and blew out one of the corners of the half-ounce chute. Oops.

So the owner, who was off-watch when this happened, sat up on deck and sewed it up to repair it to be ready for when the wind lighted again. He was sitting there sewing for hours. Needless to say, he was less than pleased.

The conditions for this race were about as perfect as could be for the Cal-40, mostly running and broad reaches the whole race. So we wound up coming in second in class, and I think third overall, even with the shortened pole. But we should have won the class easily, so any celebration was muted.

Meanwhile, the owner was probably out 5-10K for a new chute and new carbon fiber pole. He still bought the crew a meal. A good guy.

The only thing that surprises me about this story is that the pole broke and not the stay. Actually, the latter may not have been as bad, except for having to go up the mast to rig a new one.

 

[mildone]

The only thing that surprises me about this story is that the pole broke and not the stay. Actually, the latter may not have been as bad, except for having to go up the mast to rig a new one.

If we had a metal spinnaker pole, it would've possibly broken the baby-stay, but more likely it would just have hung up on it and we'd have realized the problem, eased off, unhooked the stay, and attached it to the base of the mast.

But the carbon fiber pole, while incredibly strong for it's intended use, is also incredibly light and thin. I would estimate the material to be close to a 1/16 of an inch thick. Just isn't made to survive a narrowly focused lateral pressure on it's sides. The ends with the fittings are obviously stronger.

It's actually amazing to me how strong it is under load even in it's intended use. I find it amazing in the same way I find the strength of the super light-weight Race Ramps I use when working under my car to be amazing.

This engineering shit is magical. :)

 

[RU4Real]

If we had a metal spinnaker pole, it would've possibly broken the baby-stay, but more likely it would just have hung up on it and we'd have realized the problem, eased off, unhooked the stay, and attached it to the base of the mast.

But the carbon fiber pole, while incredibly strong for it's intended use, is also incredibly light and thin. I would estimate the material to be close to a 1/16 of an inch thick. Just isn't made to survive a narrowly focused lateral pressure on it's sides. The ends with the fittings are obviously stronger.

It's actually amazing to me how strong it is under load even in it's intended use. I find it amazing in the same way I find the strength of the super light-weight Race Ramps I use when working under my car to be amazing.

This engineering shit is magical. :)

When I first started cruising I bought a hardcover copy of Desirable and Undesirable Characteristics of Offshore Yachts, read it twice and then spent months doing vanishing stability calculations in my free time. If you've never read it, it's worth the time. The centerpiece of the book is a narrative by Olin Stephens, discussing the '79 Fastnet and laying a lot of the blame on his belief - supported by subsequent pages of math - that boats designed specifically to the IOR were inherently unsafe.

 

[mildone]

When I first started cruising I bought a hardcover copy of Desirable and Undesirable Characteristics of Offshore Yachts, read it twice and then spent months doing vanishing stability calculations in my free time. If you've never read it, it's worth the time. The centerpiece of the book is a narrative by Olin Stephens, discussing the '79 Fastnet and laying a lot of the blame on his belief - supported by subsequent pages of math - that boats designed specifically to the IOR were inherently unsafe.

Must be a good book as I've had people recommend it to me numerous times. One of these days, I will have to make time to read it. If and when I set about buying a boat, I will make sure I've read it first.

 

[RU4Real]

Must be a good book as I've had people recommend it to me numerous times. One of these days, I will have to make time to read it. If and when I set about buying a boat, I will make sure I've read it first.

If "performance" is high on your list (like, "first") then definitely. For my part, as I mentioned last night, I tend to be drawn toward the work of Carl Alberg. Nearly every one of his designs has logged multiple crossings and circumnavigations, so they're proven performers in blue water. They may not be the fastest boats around the buoys, but they're pretty much guaranteed to get you to where you want to go.

Another good guy to read is John Kretschmer. He's a professional delivery captain and runs one of those "sail across the ocean with me for $5000" businesses. He's got about a million miles of blue water under his keel and in his book Sailing a Serious Ocean he not only lists his criteria for a blue water boat but goes so far as to specifically name his top dozen or so, based on his own experiences in heavy weather.

One of the points that he makes, and it's a great one, is "don't buy a boat that won't heave to". It's such a simple thing, but... a lot of modern boats simply won't do it. Think about that shit for a minute.

 

[mildone]

If "performance" is high on your list (like, "first") then definitely. For my part, as I mentioned last night, I tend to be drawn toward the work of Carl Alberg. Nearly every one of his designs has logged multiple crossings and circumnavigations, so they're proven performers in blue water. They may not be the fastest boats around the buoys, but they're pretty much guaranteed to get you to where you want to go.

Another good guy to read is John Kretschmer. He's a professional delivery captain and runs one of those "sail across the ocean with me for $5000" businesses. He's got about a million miles of blue water under his keel and in his book Sailing a Serious Ocean he not only lists his criteria for a blue water boat but goes so far as to specifically name his top dozen or so, based on his own experiences in heavy weather.

One of the points that he makes, and it's a great one, is "don't buy a boat that won't heave to". It's such a simple thing, but... a lot of modern boats simply won't do it. Think about that shit for a minute.

I didn't know there were boats that won't do that. And I would agree w/his advice - it seems like a pretty necessary capability. Why won't they?

I guess such boats don't work well w/moorings.

 

[RU4Real]

I didn't know there were boats that won't do that. And I would agree w/his advice - it seems like a pretty necessary capability. Why won't they?

I guess such boats don't work well w/moorings.

It's a keel thing - or, more specifically, the lack of one.

The boats that heave to the best are boats with full keels, because they're inherently balanced in yaw. Note that full-keeled boats tend to not yaw in a seaway.

As keels became more cutaway, and eventually morphed into the modern deep fin or deep fin with bulb, they've become inherently unstable in yaw. It's more difficult to balance them with a rudder and backwinded jib. Still, it's possible with an essentially classic (i.e. symmetrical) hull form.

The really serious deficit comes with the current, modern combination of v-shaped hull plans, with the beam carried aft, combined with a very high-aspect fin with all the weight concentrated in a bulb. Those keels do nothing to stabilize the boat in yaw and the hull shape guarantees that any wave acting on the hull will further destabilize it, by exerting greater force aft.

 

[mildone]

It's a keel thing - or, more specifically, the lack of one.

The boats that heave to the best are boats with full keels, because they're inherently balanced in yaw. Note that full-keeled boats tend to not yaw in a seaway.

As keels became more cutaway, and eventually morphed into the modern deep fin or deep fin with bulb, they've become inherently unstable in yaw. It's more difficult to balance them with a rudder and backwinded jib. Still, it's possible with an essentially classic (i.e. symmetrical) hull form.

The really serious deficit comes with the current, modern combination of v-shaped hull plans, with the beam carried aft, combined with a very high-aspect fin with all the weight concentrated in a bulb. Those keels do nothing to stabilize the boat in yaw and the hull shape guarantees that any wave acting on the hull will further destabilize it, by exerting greater force aft.

Okay, that makes sense. Although I've not done the research yet, my general desire would be to find a very stable, very comfortable (and livable) cruiser. If possible, with two engines. Stability and livability are much more important to me than speed.

 

[RU4Real]

Okay, that makes sense. Although I've not done the research yet, my general desire would be to find a very stable, very comfortable (and livable) cruiser. If possible, with two engines. Stability and livability are much more important to me than speed.

Well, you're not gonna get a boat with two engines unless it's a cat.

Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Catamarans have come a looooong way, from a blue water perspective, with the advent of the "cruising catamaran". I was a skeptic until very recently, when I started to do some serious research into how well they handled heavy weather and I came away fairly impressed. There's something to be said for a comfortable motion that never exceeds 5 degrees of heel. They're more stable in breaking seas on the beam than monohulls of the same length. And they're definitely more spacious. Today, many if not most of the boats cruising the South Pacific route are catamarans.

The downsides to a catamaran are twofold: first, if they DO wind up upside down, they're staying there. You're done. Period. Second, they cost, on average, twice as much per foot as a monohull, for the obvious reason.

Assuming you stay with a monohull, the best boats for dual purpose live-aboard and cruising are (IMO) a Hallberg Rassy of about 40 feet or, if you want to go more classic (and more spacious), something like a Gulfstar 50. The latter was pretty much designed for the Caribbean live-aboard cruiser. Finding one in really great condition can be a challenge, but they're out there.

 

[mildone]

Well, you're not gonna get a boat with two engines unless it's a cat.

Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Catamarans have come a looooong way, from a blue water perspective, with the advent of the "cruising catamaran". I was a skeptic until very recently, when I started to do some serious research into how well they handled heavy weather and I came away fairly impressed. There's something to be said for a comfortable motion that never exceeds 5 degrees of heel. They're more stable in breaking seas on the beam than monohulls of the same length. And they're definitely more spacious. Today, many if not most of the boats cruising the South Pacific route are catamarans.

The downsides to a catamaran are twofold: first, if they DO wind up upside down, they're staying there. You're done. Period. Second, they cost, on average, twice as much per foot as a monohull, for the obvious reason.

Assuming you stay with a monohull, the best boats for dual purpose live-aboard and cruising are (IMO) a Hallberg Rassy of about 40 feet or, if you want to go more classic (and more spacious), something like a Gulfstar 50. The latter was pretty much designed for the Caribbean live-aboard cruiser. Finding one in really great condition can be a challenge, but they're out there.

I gotta stop talking about this shit. I was just perusing the Yachtworld boats for sale. I'm drooling. Gonna go do some work, take my mind off it. [laughing]

 

[2degRU]

As someone who dropped out and has for the past 4 years lived and travelled by sailboat, I am glad to see this thread. It's nice to see guys into sailing in this crowd. Our boat is a Switch 51 catamaran, by the way. Speaking of round-the-world racing, I am sure you guys are aware of Donald Crowhurst and what he did in the original Golden Globe race. Its a sad and amazing story.

 

[RU4Real]

As someone who dropped out and has for the past 4 years lived and travelled by sailboat, I am glad to see this thread. It's nice to see guys into sailing in this crowd. Our boat is a Switch 51 catamaran, by the way. Speaking of round-the-world racing, I am sure you guys are aware of Donald Crowhurst and what he did in the original Golden Globe race. Its a sad and amazing story.

Indeed - I have a book about the Golden Globe (I forget who wrote it) and recall the suggestion that Crowhurst may have committed suicide. It's been awhile since I read up on it. Interestingly, Moitessier, in his own book makes frequent mention of the competitors in the race but never mentions Crowhurst. Perhaps they didn't really know each other, or perhaps the Frenchman didn't consider him a serious competitor, but it's odd that his name never really comes up.

Very nice boat, btw.

 

[mildone]

As someone who dropped out and has for the past 4 years lived and travelled by sailboat, I am glad to see this thread. It's nice to see guys into sailing in this crowd. Our boat is a Switch 51 catamaran, by the way. Speaking of round-the-world racing, I am sure you guys are aware of Donald Crowhurst and what he did in the original Golden Globe race. Its a sad and amazing story.

Real nice boat. As 4real mentioned, cats have some great advantages.

A friend that used to crew with us had/has a trimaran, completely with a parrot, upon which many late night booze-cruises were held.

 

[RU4Real]

Follow the race from the official site, here. Since they're close to the start, there's some great live footage from chase boats and helicopters. There's also a real-time race tracker that will be active throughout the race.

 

[mildone]

Been following the race at the official site. Pretty interesting goings on so far. Alex Thompson on Hugo Boss is currently enjoying a substantial lead over the next closest boats.

I would recap more, but it's probably more fun for anybody with interest to just visit the site and read the news there. Some of the news, as it pertains to the weather conditions and their affect on tactical decisions, might be of some interest to the weather-buffs here (@RU848789).

The tracker page at the site is awesome, by the way, if used in 3D mode.

 

[RUBlueLot]

Link?

 

[RAA-1]

http://www.vendeeglobe.org/en/live

Only 21,000+ more miles to go.

 

[RU4Real]

Vendee Globe - Official Site (English)

For me the great thing is how tight the fleet is, given all the fuss about the foil-equipped boats. Hugo Boss, in the lead, is one such boat but (very much as expected) Vincent Riou in PRB - one of the more mature boats in the fleet and a non-foil IMOCA, is right there in the thick of it.

The teams running the newer boats are convinced that their revolutionary appendages will stretch them out from the field once they get into the high-velocity downwind racing of the Southern Ocean. Some experts are more skeptical, citing the notion that all new boats break.

Alex Thompson, himself, is proof of that. Shortly after Hugo Boss was launched, Thompson and his co-skipper were forced to abandon ship in the double-handed Transat. The boat was recovered, and repaired.

 

[RUScrew85]

What happened to my "Get a room you two" post?

 

[mildone]

What happened to my "Get a room you two" post?

It's called a "cabin". :)