Those calling for Flood's head need perspective

[AirMcNair1217]

Even if you add 7 to this to account for this year, that puts us in the middle of the pack for division 1 college football. So rather than deal in these nauseating, abstract cliches like "lost control of the locker room" let's deal in actual facts and hard numbers. It's very easy to fall victim to a recency bias, but when you actually decide to be a little analytical for a second and digest some context for the situation, you realize that if you're calling for Flood's head, you better be calling for 40 other coaches' heads as well.

 

[ClassOf02]

How would you describe the last few weeks? An anomaly or a sign of a disturbing trend?

Also, what's a recency bias?

 

[DHajekRC84]

anyone calling for Flood's head ought to start by asking him to bend over so you can shout up his butt. That's where if has been seen residing recently.

 

[Knight Shift]

No, according to some other posts, if Flood was winning BIG (or winning the B1G), all would be forgiven. But because he is mediocre coach, we should get rid of him. I don't agree with this (that he should be forgiven if he was winning BIG). But as posted elsewhere, there has been such a persistent swirl of bad news lately and at least the appearance of a loss of control, it may be time to hit the reset button and get a new coach. Outside of the player arrests, it may be enough if the investigation shows Flood had a pattern of "initiating" contact with professors on grades to terminate him. Heap on the perception by some his coaching is mediocre and the arrests, and it is enough to can him.

 

[AirMcNair1217]

anyone calling for Flood's head ought to start by asking him to bend over so you can shout up his butt. That's where if has been seen residing recently.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. There's no substance here. Another "head up his ass" cliche rather than dealing in hard facts and NCAA-wide context

 

[ILOVERUTGERS]

The school wanted him gone last week. I bet their looking into how best to make this go down and when

 

[DHajekRC84]

This is exactly what I'm talking about. There's no substance here. Another "head up his ass" cliche rather than dealing in hard facts and NCAA-wide context

oh, you need me to re-visit the the email contact thing and the game plan/results for Saturday? Guy had 10 players suspended for the 1st game and all the rest. That comment was my opinion. I'l post my Power Point Deck tomorrow.

I'm haven't posted ONCE that Flood should go anywhere. But to say he's "all over" everything Rutgers Football and he's not in a good spot would be foolish.

 

[AirMcNair1217]

oh, you need me to re-visit the the email contact thing and the game plan/results for Saturday? Guy had 10 players suspended for the 1st game and all the rest. That comment was my opinion. I'l post my Power Point Deck tomorrow.

I'm haven't posted ONCE that Flood should go anywhere. But to say he's "all over" everything Rutgers Football and he's not in a good spot would be foolish.

Who said all over everything? Huh?

 

[RUfan121]

Jesus, what will it take for the Flood fan club? We get it, he's cheap and he's a nice guy but it's over. Let it go.

 

[krup]

Jesus, what will it take for the Flood fan club? We get it, he's cheap and he's a nice guy but it's over. Let it go.

Even at his cheap price Flood's compensation is multiples of what the governor of the entire state gets and I can't understand the mentality of people using the "he can't be expected to know what 105 kids are doing 24/7" angle.

There are certain jobs that come with a lot of money and/or power, and they also come with responsibility for the organization, where you are held accountable for things you don't personally touch but people who report to you do.

 

[Proud NJ Sports Fan]

I have always been a Coach Flood supporter.

He's a good man and has had good success as our head coach overall.

But all these off the field player issues lately and if they go 2-10 or 3-9 due to him choosing he wrong QB and not adjusting the defensive game plan, we will have a new coach next season.

 

[Plum Street]

If flood was winning , most of us real football fans could live with what's gone on . It's all about winning here .
But he doesn't win enough and the program is a mess . There is no reason to keep him at this juncture unless you want him to coach the penn state game . If he loses on Saturday , he should be dismissed Sunday . But I am fine cutting bait today , just that I don't think this university will hire the right guy

 

[AreYouNUTS]

Heap on the perception by some his coaching is mediocre and the arrests, and it is enough to can him.

"perception" that his coaching is "mediocre" by "some"? Oh com'on now Shift even you must be starting to have some doubts about that after Saturday, no? It's more than "some" and, believe or not, probably the majority. These boards don't always tell the whole story.

 

[Knight Ed]

At least a couple of these guys had bad reputations (Peele, Boggs) before they ever got to Rutgers. Flood took them anyway. I don't see how you cannot hold Flood at least partially responsible.
Peele had a bad rep coming in. Hell I heard about it and not exactly "connected". He misses a year because he is going through the legal process of an alleged assault on a girl, he then publically breaks a guy's jaw (this incident and Peele's name posted on Reddit months ago), he then is part of the Laviano curfew mess, yet he was still part of "The Family" until Julie steps in and finally kicks the man off the team.
Saying Flood has no responsibility for the mess going on around him is very Penn State of you.

 

[Scarlet Craig]

If he gets fired, I would be OK with it. No reason to keep over analyzing this stuff.

I have one rule for athletics, don't F with the good name of my university. If you do, it's good bye.

 

[Raritan83]

Even if you add 7 to this to account for this year, that puts us in the middle of the pack for division 1 college football. So rather than deal in these nauseating, abstract cliches like "lost control of the locker room" let's deal in actual facts and hard numbers. It's very easy to fall victim to a recency bias, but when you actually decide to be a little analytical for a second and digest some context for the situation, you realize that if you're calling for Flood's head, you better be calling for 40 other coaches' heads as well.

I don't care about other schools, I care about Rutgers. Middle of the pack is too high and we should have higher expectations. To say 'well others are worse' is a piss poor defense.

 

[Proud NJ Sports Fan]

Flood is a good guy and the players involved in off the field incidents should be ashamed of the themselves for their actions and breaking his trust.

 

[jvdavy]

No doubt Flood has responsibility for the conduct of the players he has on the team which he recruited and the HC should be held accountable for that. So if he loses his job b/c bad things are happening off the field too frequently, then so be it.

As for being fired for losing a game to WSU or being called out for not knowing about football? These fans calling for his head are absolute idiots. He was 8-5 last year and had us the same 1 game from a major bowl (his 1st year Lousiville loss) that Schiano did (WVU loss). Get over it, we lost a game we could have won, it happens. College and pro coaching is a highly competitive profession and a play or two turns most games from losses to wins or vice versa and can make a coach look great or awful. If Coiffi (not sure of spelling and think it was him) intercepts a ball that's in his hands on the last WSU drive, the game is over and we have a very memorable win. But he missed it and it happens because he is human (and likely won't be a pro player which is fine) - he was in the right spot and didn't make the play. Laviano played pretty well but he's a COLLEGE KID who is making his 1st start and made a couple of bad plays. He also made some pretty good ones. If Rettig plays we can expect a lot of the same probably - they are close but to make a QB have to be perfect to keep their job is counterproductive to any possible development and I'm sure Rettig and Laviano and the players understand that. Bad plays happen to the best QBs (and coaches see Eli and Coughlin making an incredibly dumb set of decisions at the end of the Cowboys-Giants game) . You can critique the D for not blitzing enough but we aren't coaches who study the film, and again, if the guy makes that INT (which he is in position to do), we move onto next week with mild complaints. We had an ultra-exciting game that was entertaining (Grant is a highlight reel) but this time it didn't turn out our way. We're not winning a national championship anyway, so move on to next week.

Again, that's the Flood gameday coaching thoughts - those calling for his head loudly are many of the same dopes who ruin attending sporting events when you have to sit next to them. The off-field stuff is another story and running a respectable program that can be competitive is job 1 - if he can't handle the off-field part of that and is let go, I completely understand.

 

[Knight Shift]

"perception" that his coaching is "mediocre" by "some"? Oh com'on now Shift even you must be starting to have some doubts about that after Saturday, no? It's more than "some" and, believe or not, probably the majority. These boards don't always tell the whole story.

I can't answer your question or statement about a majority because I did not take a poll. His coaching ability has been a longstanding beef here by "some." I do not judge a coach by a single game. Did the coaches and team do a mediocre to poor job against WSU--yes. If he is still here, I would like to see how the coaches and the team respond the rest of the season. Did they improve? Did they clean up penalties? Did they not have so many unnecessary time outs? Is that fair, or would you rather run him out of town on the results of one game? Or do you want to reach further back than last year (I don't see the point in looking back at 2013 because that year was a mess in so many ways and it was his first year--yeah, excuses), because it was my impression a majority of people were satisfied with last year's results for our first year in the B1G, while "some" still thought he was mediocre. But I don't see many people denying at the end of last year that he did not improve over 2013, and we were hoping to see further improvement. I would give him a "T" grade, and encourage him to tell Julie to e-mail me to see if there is anything he can do to improve his grade. :flush:

Is that a fair answer?

 

[AirMcNair1217]

So just to be clear, for everyone who responded here that wants Flood gone, you're saying that all the other head coaches of schools on that list should also be fired? Or is there a double standard where this only applies to Coach Flood?

 

[Raritan83]

So just to be clear, for everyone who responded here that wants Flood gone, you're saying that all the other head coaches of schools on that list should also be fired? Or is there a double standard where this only applies to Coach Flood?

Who cares about other schools? Their business is their business. Our business is our business.

 

[JMORC2003]

Sadly this is the reality of it... When you're trying to compete in big time college football you tend to look the other way on some things. Sometimes they come back to bite you. With GS I think it was partly his micromanaging style (which had other downsides), but also part plain luck. Big programs are powder kegs, I don't envy coach Flood.

 

[Upstream]

I think it will be very difficult for Flood to survive this.

Even if Rutgers is middle-of-the-pack in number of player arrests over the past five years, the timing of the arrests plus this weekend's suspension creates the impression that Flood has lost control of the team. And more importantly, it likely causes a unneeded distraction among the players.

So while I don't think Flood deserves to be fired because of the off-the-field issues (from what I know so far), I do think that the issues will make if very difficult for him to put together a winning season, and ultimately make it difficult for him to recruit. Plus the off-the-field issues make it more difficult to give Flood the benefit of the doubt, if there is debate about keeping him at the end of the year.

Without a winning season, he is probably gone. With 6 wins, or 7 wins and a bowl loss, he is probably gone. And I just don't see 8 wins happening this year.

 

[cig04]

I agree with the post that said- " who cares about other schools. their business is their business and our business is our business."

that is a fact!

Flood is not a good coach, or recruiter, I do not care if he is cheap. he needs to go!

 

[ScarletDave]

Some of you guys make it seem that Flood goes into the locker room and tells the players to go out and get into trouble. What exactly could he have done to prevent this from happening with Leonte? Probably his most trusted player, no signs of being a bad seed, and after he's released from Flood's watch he goes out and gets into a fight defending his family, now everyone is saying this was the last straw and calling for Flood to be fired? Kyle is probably at home with his wife crying because he thinks his career is over and his life ruined over a bunch of kids and actions he had NO IDEA would happen and had no control over. His kids are probably shaken seeing their dad crying and hearing whatever they are from the news and the public. Very sad.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

I can't answer your question or statement about a majority because I did not take a poll. His coaching ability has been a longstanding beef here by "some." I do not judge a coach by a single game. Did the coaches and team do a mediocre to poor job against WSU--yes. If he is still here, I would like to see how the coaches and the team respond the rest of the season. Did they improve? Did they clean up penalties? Did they not have so many unnecessary time outs? Is that fair, or would you rather run him out of town on the results of one game? Or do you want to reach further back than last year (I don't see the point in looking back at 2013 because that year was a mess in so many ways and it was his first year--yeah, excuses), because it was my impression a majority of people were satisfied with last year's results for our first year in the B1G, while "some" still thought he was mediocre. But I don't see many people denying at the end of last year that he did not improve over 2013, and we were hoping to see further improvement. I would give him a "T" grade, and encourage him to tell Julie to e-mail me to see if there is anything he can do to improve his grade. :flush:

Is that a fair answer?

Other than disagreeing re: 2013, because it was only 2 seasons ago, definitely a "fair answer" Shift!

fyi - I really wish we weren't having these conversations, at all, let alone 2 weeks into a season. This isn't fun for any of us.

 

[Knight Shift]

Some of you guys make it seem that Flood goes into the locker room and tells the players to go out and get into trouble. What exactly could he have done to prevent this from happening with Leonte? Probably his most trusted player, no signs of being a bad seed, and after he's released from Flood's watch he goes out and gets into a fight defending his family, now everyone is saying this was the last straw and calling for Flood to be fired? Kyle is probably at home with his wife crying because he thinks his career is over and his life ruined over a bunch of kids and actions he had NO IDEA would happen and had no control over. His kids are probably shaken seeing their dad crying and hearing whatever they are from the news and the public. Very sad.

At home crying? Please. He is an honorable and smart enough man to know that sometimes life is not fair. He is in the big league, where life can be even less fair. You statement about him crying and is family being shaken is a major reach.

 

[mikemarc1]

Some of you guys make it seem that Flood goes into the locker room and tells the players to go out and get into trouble. What exactly could he have done to prevent this from happening with Leonte? Probably his most trusted player, no signs of being a bad seed, and after he's released from Flood's watch he goes out and gets into a fight defending his family, now everyone is saying this was the last straw and calling for Flood to be fired? Kyle is probably at home with his wife crying because he thinks his career is over and his life ruined over a bunch of kids and actions he had NO IDEA would happen and had no control over. His kids are probably shaken seeing their dad crying and hearing whatever they are from the news and the public. Very sad.

I think, while in the locker room, he's still under watch of the head coach. According to reports (who knows if true), he was told to stay in the locker room but refused and left the locker room. Flood CANNOT let that happen, and it's unfortunately under his watch, as he was still in the facility.

 

[Knight Shift]

Other than disagreeing re: 2013, because it was only 2 seasons ago, definitely a "fair answer" Shift!

fyi - I really wish we weren't having these conversations, at all, let alone 2 weeks into a season. This isn't fun for any of us.

I think I know how you feel. There is a time and a place to think about changing coaches, and nothing on the field has warranted that. However, even in my mind, as I was watching the game on Saturday, particularly on defense, I was thinking WTF are they doing out there. I want to see corrections and improvements, if he has the chance to do so.

It has been said before that if Kyle Flood is exonerated on the e-mail situation, and RU chooses to fire him for this off the field stuff, you may not have a long line of coaches willing to come to a University that throws people under the bus rather than stand behind them. I think that was AirMcNair's point. Then again, money talks, and there may be a long line of people who want the job, but if I was the new coach's agent, I would have a lawyer spend a lot of time of what constitutes firing for "cause."

 

[AreYouNUTS]

Some of you guys make it seem that Flood goes into the locker room and tells the players to go out and get into trouble. What exactly could he have done to prevent this from happening with Leonte? Probably his most trusted player, no signs of being a bad seed, and after he's released from Flood's watch he goes out and gets into a fight defending his family, now everyone is saying this was the last straw and calling for Flood to be fired? Kyle is probably at home with his wife crying because he thinks his career is over and his life ruined over a bunch of kids and actions he had NO IDEA would happen and had no control over..

I sure as hell hope that Kyle isn't sitting at home crying with his wife, right now, he's a grown man with a f*cking job to do. Many humans lose their jobs, on a daily basis, you do realize this, right? It sucks - trust me - but shit happens Dave. Yes, it would suck for him and his family, no question, but it's not like the doctor just told him he has 6-moths to live. It's a job and he'll find another one, if not in football, then maybe with his degree. This is life, this is reality, this isn't some fairy tale. I'm pretty sure he's getting ready for either practice, film sessions, or his presser, and trying to deal with the Carroo situation, right now. I damn well hope so! Also, while Flood can't predict these things, or ultimately stop them, it IS under his watch, bottom line, unfortunately for him.

 

[KJ_RU]

Flood is a good guy and the players involved in off the field incidents should be ashamed of the themselves for their actions and breaking his trust.

Our you could say Flood failed the players for not giving them the discipline they obviously needed. It's pretty one sided to simply say the players failed Flood, after all, he is the leader.

 

[Ole Cabbagehead]

I think, while in the locker room, he's still under watch of the head coach. According to reports (who knows if true), he was told to stay in the locker room but refused and left the locker room. Flood CANNOT let that happen, and it's unfortunately under his watch, as he was still in the facility.

I actually have the exact opposite opinion. If someone was there, and directly told Leonte not to go outside, that that is actually the most that could be done. The lack of supervision would be if no one was there watching at the team facility.

You cannot keep someone in the team facility against their will, its illegal. No one at the school can do anymore than tell him not to go outside. After that he makes his own decisions.

That's the funny thing about this recent incident. If the rumors are true, this is evidence in support of the fact that you cannot blame the coaches for player discipline issues. The school made strong example last week, by kicking everyone involved off the team. Leonte saw that. Leonte was also hit with a half game suspension for something that a lot of schools would look the other way for with a star player. Then he is directly told not to do something, and does it anyway. I look at this incident, and think that I have no idea what anyone expects the staff to do. You literally cannot do any more.

 

[mikemarc1]

I actually have the exact opposite opinion. If someone was there, and directly told Leonte not to go outside, that that is actually the most that could be done. The lack of supervision would be if no one was there watching at the team facility.

You cannot keep someone against their will, its illegal. No one at the school can do anymore than tell him not to go outside. After that he makes his own decisions.

I guess it depends on the who. Thought I read speculation it was another player who told him no, not necessarily anyone of authority. We'll wait and see.

 

[Ole Cabbagehead]

I guess it depends on the who. Thought I read speculation it was another player who told him no, not necessarily anyone of authority. We'll wait and see.

I don't really care about the who. It is proof positive that you can only do so much. He made his own decision. This is symptomatic of the larger issue. No one is responsible for their own bad decisions anymore. We are supposed to blame a coach who isn't present for a college kid getting in a fight involving family members... its just insanity to me.

 

[mikemarc1]

I don't really care about the who. It is proof positive that you can only do so much. He made his own decision. This is symptomatic of the larger issue. No one is responsible for their own bad decisions anymore. We are supposed to blame a coach who isn't present for a college kid getting in a fight involving family members... its just insanity to me.

True, but I'm sure Flood and the staff are responsible for the kids in the Hale Center before and after games. Its the same scenario last year at Sayreville. The coach has to be responsible for the kids in the locker room. This is no different, in my opinion.

 

[Ole Cabbagehead]

True, but I'm sure Flood and the staff are responsible for the kids in the Hale Center before and after games. Its the same scenario last year at Sayreville. The coach has to be responsible for the kids in the locker room. This is no different, in my opinion.

My real criticism jives with this, but mine is placed on the school and not on the football staff. I cannot believe they do not have some security outside the Hale center. I wouldn't even think to keep player friends and families from attacking each other, but just generally because idiots might hang around and try something.

In the pros, players always have escorts to and from facilities/transportation.

 

[Armor and Sword]

Perception is everything and more often than we want, bad perceptions prevails over exculpatory facts, policies, practices, etc. that might shield Flood and others from blame and responsibility. Unfortunately, Rutgers has had an "embattled" athletic program over the 18 months since the Rice incident and over that period of time and it will be tough to stifle the urge to wipe the slate clean, rinse the dirt off, remove the stink and start over. The cautionary tale for slate cleaning and athletic program/University administration cleansing is TTFP, which has not yet fully recovered from Sandusky. Not Guilty verdicts from the Court of Public Opinion are rare and we shouldn't expect one here.

 

[mikemarc1]

My real criticism jives with this, but mine is placed on the school and not on the football staff. I cannot believe they do not have some security outside the Hale center. I wouldn't even think to keep player friends and families from attacking each other, but just generally because idiots might hang around and try something.

In the pros, players always have escorts to and from facilities/transportation.

True. I'd imagine there was security outside, but who knows? Only thing we seem to know for sure if there was a fight outside and Carroo left the Hale Center to join it. Lets hope he had no part of it.

 

[RUwoz]

This graphic is from the last 5 years, so they are most likely separate instances for other teams. All 7 of ours have been recently, so what changed since last season that all of a sudden kids are doing this here, something switched...

 

[cRURah]

At best Flood is a mediocre college coach who was hired for only 2 reasons: he was available and was he was cheap. His only redeeming qualities were his high character and integrity. He was also regarded as a father figure for many of his players. As of today those redeeming qualities have been seriously tarnished if not removed completely. He is the subject of a comprehensive university compliance investigation, he has had 7 players arrested in less than 2 weeks including the best player on the team, he is starting a QB who broke the law and who received a suspension comparable to that dished out for only breaking curfew, and to top it off he is managing his QBs in the usual boneheaded manner that we have become accustomed. Flood brings nothing of value to the RU football program. I can't believe there are many folks here who believe he is the right coach to take RU to the next level. Right now he has us reeling in reverse.