Caleb and Cody Martin

[Mr Magoo]

Here we go again with the 6 or 7 year rebuild....that's laughable for a college basketball program. It this is a 6-year rebuild, we have hired the wrong guy yet again. However I doubt that is the case.

This year will be rough on the court, but there has to be higher expectations, accountability, and progress. I expect to be sniffing an NIT bid in year 3.

Just like it was evident Jordan was going nowhere, it will also be evident where this program is heading after Pikiell's first year or two. I suspect we got it right this time.

 

[TDIrish27]

That IMO is a reasonable expectation.

 

[Ole Cabbagehead]

When you are as bad as us, everyone naturally winds up discussing a 6 or 7 year re-rebuild. There is no talent here. 6 or 7 years is how long it takes to flush out the current roster, and to have more talented players brought in who are then upperclassmen.

Unfortunately, I have always believed that 6 or 7 years of rebuild will consume one coach. Because recruits expect quick success, by year 4, the coaching staff cannot recruit anymore. So you need one coach to recruit well, and bring the team to a competitive .500 level type team by year 4. Then you dump him and bring in the next big name to get you over the hump, because that new staff will have the immediate recruiting bump.

You need to use the "new staff recruiting bump" to get to where you need to be. Otherwise it tapers off and you fail. This happened to FHJ and Rice. EJ never got the recruiting bump, and unfortunately, wasn't able to bring talent up to a .500 level, where you could look at this new staff and be relatively certain they will get us there. In reality, their success is anything but guaranteed because they will ned to keep momentum for a 5-7 year period which is really hard to do.

 

[RUJMM78]

No way Pikiell is thinking Year 6 or 7 for a break thru. He did not bring in this staff with an expectation for a 7 year build.

There is no way Hobbs and Knight would be at Rutgers participating in a 6-7 year build.They want to show success so that they can get a head coaching position.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

You guys need to look at the roster

We are a junior/soph team.... which means in year four...we are going to be a heavy frosh/soph team again

Suppose Steve P does this...
16-16
19-13 NIT
19-13 NIT

Then we have soph/frosh team in year four and junior/soph team in year five...

Are you going to kill him for not making the NCAA in year 5...

People need to prepare for the fact that UNLESS we make the NCAAs in year 2 and year 3 under pikell when we have a veteran team...the way the roster in configured it will take the kids he is recruiting NOW...and growing them up...into his 5th and 6th years to get over the hump

I think we have a shot for a short burst, especially if he can develop Corey and get the kids to play defense...but I also see that the real sustainable success wont be until his first three full recruiting classes are here and growing up...and that is year 6 and 7.

 

[eja92]

When you are as bad as us, everyone naturally winds up discussing a 6 or 7 year re-rebuild. There is no talent here. 6 or 7 years is how long it takes to flush out the current roster, and to have more talented players brought in who are then upperclassmen.

Unfortunately, I have always believed that 6 or 7 years of rebuild will consume one coach. Because recruits expect quick success, by year 4, the coaching staff cannot recruit anymore. So you need one coach to recruit well, and bring the team to a competitive .500 level type team by year 4. Then you dump him and bring in the next big name to get you over the hump, because that new staff will have the immediate recruiting bump.

You need to use the "new staff recruiting bump" to get to where you need to be. Otherwise it tapers off and you fail. This happened to FHJ and Rice. EJ never got the recruiting bump, and unfortunately, wasn't able to bring talent up to a .500 level, where you could look at this new staff and be relatively certain they will get us there. In reality, their success is anything but guaranteed because they will ned to keep momentum for a 5-7 year period which is really hard to do.

You are comparing this staff to past staffs which is understandable, but you will be very pleasantly surprised that it is not accurate. The idea of needing a "pop" in recruiting when you are new is applicable more to the types of coaches RU has hired before - young coaches stepping up in class, first time head coaches, NBA guy coming to college for the first time. That is not this staff. Things will get better immediately (they already have) and the quality of the player development will be tangible. The players we have in the program do have talent - they just need to be led and the things we are missing (shooting) needs to be augmented. Try to stay positive and enjoy the ride.

 

[TDIrish27]

Rutgers is very shy on talent IMO----their Bigs from what little I've seen of them can't play at this level.

I haven't seen Johnson obviously but Laurent would be an 8th or 9th guy on any middle of the road or better Big 10 roster.

Sanders has a chance to become a good player but he needs a lot of work physically.

Freeman is hard to judge because of the injury but not much doubt that overall they need a huge injection of talent.

 

[ouchmyknee]

Heard that the visit went very well and there's a very strong chance they join the program.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

How many times are we going to hire and fire coaches?

If it is done right it should take some time.

Right now HS juniors have already been heavily recruited and many are already spoken for. Any HS seniors still left have baggage.

That leaves us going after current HS freshman and HS sophomores. These guys are seniors in 6 or 7 years.

Fred Hill, Mike Rice and Eddie Jordan all had to go and should have been fired. Pikiell has to be a real bad coach or guy for him not to get 7+ years here.

 

[RUMBA-JK]

When you think about it - neither Fred Hill, Mike Rice nor Eddie Jordan were truly, truly able to claim "expertise" in taking the remnants of a meager program and having the vision as to how to go out and get the major replacement parts & put it together to build a solid consistent program for the future - they hoped that some tinkering & things would break their way - that serendipitously the right pieces would appear before their eyes and that they would have the good fortune to use these pieces in the right way

Pikiell seems truly equipped - and truly possessed of the right mindset to do a comprehensive rebuild/resurrection - - and he know what kind of team he needs to put on the court this coming year in order to get the ball rolling - and that may not be a tournament team - but it damn sure will be a team that just screams out that they savor every second that they get to play fundamentally sound, high intensity, team focused never-never-never give up basketball in the B1G -

 

[AreYouNUTS]

Here we go again with the 6 or 7 year rebuild....that's laughable for a college basketball program. It this is a 6-year rebuild, we have hired the wrong guy yet again. However I doubt that is the case.

This year will be rough on the court, but there has to be higher expectations, accountability, and progress. I expect to be sniffing an NIT bid in year 3.

Just like it was evident Jordan was going nowhere, it will also be evident where this program is heading after Pikiell's first year or two. I suspect we got it right this time.

Pikiell wouldn't have taken the job if he thought this was a "6-7 year rebuild."

 

[jmc11201]

Heard that the visit went very well and there's a very strong chance they join the program.

That would be great news.

Clearly facilities and things like that matter, but having a coach that kids believe in is just as important.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

Heard that the visit went very well and there's a very strong chance they join the program.

lock...them...up. period.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

IF we get the Martin twins and Thiam....we will have a LOT of players finally

We would only have one ship to give...but this would be our 2017-2018 roster

Sr (4) Freeman/Johnson/Williams/Sa
Jr (6) Sanders/Laurent/Diallo/Doorson/Martin/Martin
So (2) Thiam/Bullock
Fr (1)....ONE to give

Think that one ship must be a GUARD....

I will say that is a team that has a lot of potential....and enough competition that hopefully a couple of front court guys rise to the top and separate themselves a bonafide big ten big guys

 

[RUJMM78]

Pikiell wouldn't have taken the job if he thought this was a "6-7 year rebuild."

Pikiell knows that its highly unlikely any head coach in a power conference will be given 6-7years to rebuild.The word rebuild for mens basketball is a poor choice because it assumes that Rutgers poor performances were a recent situation and not 25 years of futility.To his credit Pikiell has stated the need to win quickly to keep fan interest and to attract higher level talent.

 

[RUskoolie]

How many times are we going to hire and fire coaches?

If it is done right it should take some time.

Right now HS juniors have already been heavily recruited and many are already spoken for. Any HS seniors still left have baggage.

That leaves us going after current HS freshman and HS sophomores. These guys are seniors in 6 or 7 years.

Fred Hill, Mike Rice and Eddie Jordan all had to go and should have been fired. Pikiell has to be a real bad coach or guy for him not to get 7+ years here.

Huh? Pikell is getting handed a program that should go .500 next year if Sanders is back. IMO it really shows how little people realized what injuries did to us last year. This isn't some long rebuild. He's inheriting a solid roster by RU standards. And lol at 7+ years...you'll be one of the first complaining about his coaching by December.

 

[Scangg]

Huh? Pikell is getting handed a program that should go .500 next year if Sanders is back. IMO it really shows how little people realized what injuries did to us last year. This isn't some long rebuild. He's inheriting a solid roster by RU standards. And lol at 7+ years...you'll be one of the first complaining about his coaching by December.

Exactlyyyy we had so many injuries and didn't lose much in graduation. Everyone else is a year older physically and with more experience. You can't win games in the B1G with all of your big men out with injuries. I think people are completely underestimating the impact that having no big men had. Add in Nigel and Sa as transfers and Bullock and Thiam and we should be solid and competitive this year. Better coaching should help maximize talent. Having a stud at PG entering his second year will really help since they have the ball the most. Sanders has probably already learned a thing or two from knight

 

[RUinFla]

Skoolie, not sure where you are going with your posts the past few months. OK, you do not like the staff--can't remember if you were an EJ guy or Hurley guy, but doesn't matter. That team last year could not compete, and won its only conference game against a Minnesota team that was mediocre at full strength and played us with several key players hurt or suspended--you often had three walk ons on the court. Now you say, with several guys from last season gone via graduation and transfer that we should be a .500 team?? Presumably in your mind if we only win some ten games, fire the coach. He had the material, but couldn't use it properly. Please tell us how this team, not counting guys like Thiam and the Martin kids--we may get none of them--is capable of going .500.
I saw RU many times on BTN, and the talent wasn't there. Please don't tell me Sanders will be an all-B1G performer next year, scoring over 20 with double digit assists--he is not even close to what Douby was at a comparable age. And even if he were that good, who are going to be the bigs? You expecting mammoth contributions from Doorson and Diallo, assuming they stay healthy? You just want to start a Fire the Staff thread at the end of next season.
TL

 

[Mr_Twister]

Huh? Pikell is getting handed a program that should go .500 next year if Sanders is back. IMO it really shows how little people realized what injuries did to us last year. This isn't some long rebuild. He's inheriting a solid roster by RU standards. And lol at 7+ years...you'll be one of the first complaining about his coaching by December.

If Rutgers gets to .500, Pikiell will be national Coach of the Year. Rutgers was manhandled last year by most opponents. How many Rutgers players would see serious playing time on another Big Ten roster?

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

If Rutgers gets to .500, Pikiell will be national Coach of the Year. Rutgers was manhandled last year by most opponents. How many Rutgers players would see serious playing time on another Big Ten roster?

Yes, the 6 healthy scholarship players with many playing out of position were manhandled by B1G teams. I agree.

 

[ScarletRunner]

We likely have the least talented roster in the B1G, and some of our fellow bottom feeders have impressive recruiting classes coming in. Yes, there were injuries last year, but we generally stunk early on even when almost fully healthy.

Some folks here are really detached from reality, or are so used to seeing this team that they just don't know what a competitive major conference team looks like. We have a long way to go people.

 

[shields]

Want healthy team with no walk-ons playing. Think Laurent will be good player.

 

[bac2therac]

We likely have the least talented roster in the B1G, and some of our fellow bottom feeders have impressive recruiting classes coming in. Yes, there were injuries last year, but we generally stunk early on even when almost fully healthy.

Some folks here are really detached from reality, or are so used to seeing this team that they just don't know what a competitive major conference team looks like. We have a long way to go people.

this....not saying we dont have parts but this program is not going 500 this year...and after Sanders leaves thats a huge loss. Basically we are counting on a whole new group most of which are only being recruited at present time. I woudnt say its a 7 year build this time but we will know...we always know by year 3 if things are trending up and recruiting is staying above water..those are the signs..we always have those willing to ignore those signs and go down with the sinking ship supporting a head coach to the bitter end. I dont expect post season of any sort until maybe a NIT year 4...it could happen year 3 but wouldnt expect it. :Pikiell can take us to NIT in year 5 and 6 and he isnt going anywhere...so when we talk about 7 years..yeah RU might just be an NIT program for a few years with 18-19 wins and Pikiell isnt going anywhere

 

[bac2therac]

Huh? Pikell is getting handed a program that should go .500 next year if Sanders is back. IMO it really shows how little people realized what injuries did to us last year. This isn't some long rebuild. He's inheriting a solid roster by RU standards. And lol at 7+ years...you'll be one of the first complaining about his coaching by December.

lol if you think this team should go 500 next year...by next year do you mean this upcoming year?

 

[RUskoolie]

If Rutgers gets to .500, Pikiell will be national Coach of the Year. Rutgers was manhandled last year by most opponents. How many Rutgers players would see serious playing time on another Big Ten roster?

Because they had NO bigs playing, Laurent or Mike Williams were playing 4 and 5 some nights. We could barely practice last year due to lack of bodies...Why is this so hard to understand for you guys? That team wasn't as bad as it looked and it won't be that bad this year. Last year people thought we had a 12-14 win team...I saw 9 wins before injuries just because of how the roster was set. Year 4 of EJ I expected .500 and I still expect .500 this year.

 

[RUskoolie]

this....not saying we dont have parts but this program is not going 500 this year...and after Sanders leaves thats a huge loss. Basically we are counting on a whole new group most of which are only being recruited at present time. I woudnt say its a 7 year build this time but we will know...we always know by year 3 if things are trending up and recruiting is staying above water..those are the signs..we always have those willing to ignore those signs and go down with the sinking ship supporting a head coach to the bitter end. I dont expect post season of any sort until maybe a NIT year 4...it could happen year 3 but wouldnt expect it. :pikiell can take us to NIT in year 5 and 6 and he isnt going anywhere...so when we talk about 7 years..yeah RU might just be an NIT program for a few years with 18-19 wins and Pikiell isnt going anywhere

Replace "Sanders" with "Mack" and you literally typed the same thing verbatim when EJ was hired. I give it 2-2.5 years before you want Pikell fired.

 

[MADHAT1]

Next season RU won't be a winning team and might get blownout more than we think it will.
RU's roster isn't that strong in my opinion because of the question marks at center.
Actually the whole front-court is an unknown factor that could be an asset or a problem .
Back-court , except for Sanders, needs to prove it is B1G material and the new players coming into the program we can only hope they are as good as advertised.
It's the competitiveness day in and day out with never giving up no matter how far behind your are is what we need to look at and if it's there , even in blowout games, we might have hope for the future regarding RU MBB.

Year 3 of the Pikiell is when I expect the RU MBB program to start showing it can win on a regular bases and the 4th year start doing that.
7 years to be a winning program is far to long and Steve P isn't the man for the job if we think that's how long it will take him.
I think by the end of 3rd year he'll have proved himself and we all will be expecting constant NCAA apearences with him at the helm.

 

[ColonelRutgers]

Because they had NO bigs playing, Laurent or Mike Williams were playing 4 and 5 some nights. We could barely practice last year due to lack of bodies...Why is this so hard to understand for you guys? That team wasn't as bad as it looked and it won't be that bad this year. Last year people thought we had a 12-14 win team...I saw 9 wins before injuries just because of how the roster was set. Year 4 of EJ I expected .500 and I still expect .500 this year.

Did you watch any games in November and December when the only guy missing was Doorson?

 

[AshCatchEm]

For what worth, Sanders was a decent player identified by Jordan. He may have been lazy but I think he could still identify a few good players..the other guys have a chance to be good. Especially with the renewal of new conditioning. And better more active coaching. It's a brand new start. I'm not ready to say how they stack up vs the big ten until I said it. Definitely don't expect anything over .500 but I wouldn't be surprised by it. And no...pike wouldn't get coach of the year for a .500 team. It would be a slight over performance but that's about it. We have some health now along with the conditioning and I really think people underestimate what Sa can do for us by moving all our players down one position to where they're more naturally gifted. I could easily see Sa getting 30-40 minutes per game.

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

Did you watch any games in November and December when the only guy missing was Doorson?

The only veteran center was not healthy all year...his name is Greg Lewis. Diallo was a freshmen and a lot of guys were playing together for the first time in those early games....then Freeman and Diallo went down.

 

[ColonelRutgers]

The only veteran center was not healthy all year...his name is Greg Lewis. Diallo was a freshmen and a lot of guys were playing together for the first time in those early games....then Freeman and Diallo went down.

Don't want to waste time rehashing this stuff but Diallo was a redshirt freshman who had already practiced with the team for a full year. The team sucked before Freeman and Diallo went down. Point is, people are putting unrealistic expectations on a roster with huge questions and no track record of success and grossly overestimating the talent on our roster again.

 

[seels2662]

I freak'n hate the "we have no telent" crowd...

Does Sanders have no talent?

Thats good because reports are Johnson is better than Sanders.

And by the way Freemen will be our best low post player since Kent.

And the "I've seen enough of our centers to know that they are not B1G caliber" is pretty good since neither of them have played significant minutes yet due to injury.

We have a serious depth problem. That is not a serious talent problem.

 

[TDIrish27]

Versus what other people in the league have yeah there is a serious talent problem.

If you don't see that we'll have to just agree to disagree.

 

[RickB113]

Bottom line is if we had a FULL HEALTHY roster all year last season Eddie wins 10 games. Everyone agrees Eddie was a terrible coach so that means if Pikiel had that same full healthy roster we win at least 12 games. Well this years roster is better than last years roster so why is it not reasonable to expect 14 to 16 wins?

 

[RU at the shore]

Suppose Steve P does this...
16-16
19-13 NIT
19-13 NIT

Umm, sold

 

[ScarletRunner]

I predict a lot of people posting in this thread are in for a rude awakening when the season starts.

 

[bac2therac]

I freak'n hate the "we have no telent" crowd...

Does Sanders have no talent?

Thats good because reports are Johnson is better than Sanders.

And by the way Freemen will be our best low post player since Kent.

And the "I've seen enough of our centers to know that they are not B1G caliber" is pretty good since neither of them have played significant minutes yet due to injury.

We have a serious depth problem. That is not a serious talent problem.

we have less talent than any other team in the Big 10

 

[RUJMM78]

Next season RU won't be a winning team and might get blownout more than we think it will.
RU's roster isn't that strong in my opinion because of the question marks at center.
Actually the whole front-court is an unknown factor that could be an asset or a problem .
Back-court , except for Sanders, needs to prove it is B1G material and the new players coming into the program we can only hope they are as good as advertised.
It's the competitiveness day in and day out with never giving up no matter how far behind your are is what we need to look at and if it's there , even in blowout games, we might have hope for the future regarding RU MBB.

Year 3 of the Pikiell is when I expect the RU MBB program to start showing it can win on a regular bases and the 4th year start doing that.
7 years to be a winning program is far to long and Steve P isn't the man for the job if we think that's how long it will take him.
I think by the end of 3rd year he'll have proved himself and we all will be expecting constant NCAA apearences with him at the helm.

Expecting constant NCAA appearances after the third year of Pikiell is truly wishful thinking.It would take top twenty recruiting classes the next 3 years to put Rutgers anywhere near getting a NCAA bid .

 

[bac2therac]

Bottom line is if we had a FULL HEALTHY roster all year last season Eddie wins 10 games. Everyone agrees Eddie was a terrible coach so that means if Pikiel had that same full healthy roster we win at least 12 games. Well this years roster is better than last years roster so why is it not reasonable to expect 14 to 16 wins?

because teams need to gel....this program needs to learn to win, its has lost 40 of its last 47 games...it does not know how to win, it has lost like 32 of 33 league games. Its going to be a process moving from where they were under Jordan to get better and learning how to compete under Pikiell...also you act like every other team does not improve. Pikiell will give the program a fighters chance, he puts us back in the game again competitive wise from the mess under Jordan, he isnt going to be a miracle worker with wins with a program that is the least talented in league

 

[bac2therac]

For what worth, Sanders was a decent player identified by Jordan. He may have been lazy but I think he could still identify a few good players..the other guys have a chance to be good. Especially with the renewal of new conditioning. And better more active coaching. It's a brand new start. I'm not ready to say how they stack up vs the big ten until I said it. Definitely don't expect anything over .500 but I wouldn't be surprised by it. And no...pike wouldn't get coach of the year for a .500 team. It would be a slight over performance but that's about it. We have some health now along with the conditioning and I really think people underestimate what Sa can do for us by moving all our players down one position to where they're more naturally gifted. I could easily see Sa getting 30-40 minutes per game.

Pikiell would get serious consideration for Big 10 coach of the year honors in RU finished above 500