COVID-19 Pandemic: Transmissions, Deaths, Treatments, Vaccines, Interventions and More...

[RU848789]

To be fair, Finland's population density is a third lower than Sweden's. Population density has more than a little to do with disease spread.

I'd submit that that is a very minor difference in the bigger picture (and it's only a 23% difference).

Country......Cases/1MM.......Deaths/1MM........Tests/1MM.....Density (per sq mi)
Sweden..........2088......................256.....................11K.....................56
Finland.............902.......................38.......................17K....................43
Norway............1427......................39.......................31K....................41
Iceland............5266......................29......................141K.....................8
Denmark.........1580......................78.......................33K...................345
Germany.........1945......................79.......................30K...................576

 

[Proud NJ Sports Fan]

not in regards to any science I post.

You post propaganda, that's why

 

[formerlyknownasrutgers100]

You post propaganda, that's why

you wouldn't know a truth if she was a 70 year-old cocktail waitress with a raspy voice who drank JD.

 

[wisr01]

Sweden admits to being too optimistic in its CV planning

We should have done more, admits architect of Sweden's Covid-19 strategy

"Sweden’s death rate per capita was the highest in the world over the seven days to 2 June, figures suggest. This week the government bowed to mounting opposition pressure and promised to set up a commission to look into its Covid-19 strategy.

“If we were to encounter the same disease again knowing exactly what we know about it today, I think we would settle on doing something in between what Sweden did and what the rest of the world has done,” Tegnell said. It would be “good to know exactly what to shut down to curb the spread of infection better”, he added."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-strategy-admits-too-many-died-anders-tegnell

https://www.medicalbrief.co.za/arch...s-their-initial-covid-19-lockdown-strategies/

 

[RU-05]

Texas reports 2,437 new cases. Previous high was 2080.

 

[RU4Real]

I'd submit that that is a very minor difference in the bigger picture (and it's only a 23% difference).

Country......Cases/1MM.......Deaths/1MM........Tests/1MM.....Density (per sq mi)
Sweden..........2088......................256.....................11K.....................56
Finland.............902.......................38.......................17K....................43
Norway............1427......................39.......................31K....................41
Iceland............5266......................29......................141K.....................8
Denmark.........1580......................78.......................33K...................345
Germany.........1945......................79.......................30K...................576

That's assuming that the relationship between population density and community spread is proportional. I would submit that it is not.

 

[Ronnie_B]

Who called Deadly Mosquitoes in June?

https://onezero.medium.com/a-deadly-mosquito-borne-illness-is-brewing-in-the-northeast-d3283c71c6a0

I had Godzilla.

 

[Proud NJ Sports Fan]

You guys have a history - maybe both of you could give it a rest, just for this thread - and if you do, when you die, on your death beds, you will receive total consciousness - so you'll have that goin' for you...which is nice...

That's like way OT bruh

 

[RU-05]

Who called Deadly Mosquitoes in June?

https://onezero.medium.com/a-deadly-mosquito-borne-illness-is-brewing-in-the-northeast-d3283c71c6a0

I had Godzilla.

Pass.

 

[fsg2]

That's like way OT bruh

+1 Can we stick to the topic please, #s?

 

[wisr01]

That's assuming that the relationship between population density and community spread is proportional. I would submit that it is not.

It also assumes that the population is evenly distributed throughout each nation which it they are not. The populations are concentrated in urban centers and Sweden's urban centers have more people and are much more dense. Sweden is a much larger country with a lot of areas in the north with very few people.

 

[Myrtleknight]

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/cota-supports-fda-assessment-real-134000191.html

• Hypertension, the most common coexisting condition, does not have a major impact on survival from the disease when adjusted for age and other comorbid conditions.
• Commonly prescribed medications to treat high blood pressure including ACE-inhibitors and ARBs may potentially have a positive impact.
• Hydroxychloroquine does not improve survival for patients hospitalized with COVID-19.
• Another drug, tocilizumab, may improve survival among critically ill intensive care unit patients. If the results are confirmed through additional research, tocilizumab would become one of the first medications that can improve survival from COVID-19.

I might have missed it in this thread but a Harvard study and others have indicated statins and other cardiovascular medicines are having great results and this may in fact be a cardiovascular disease or better put a disease that attacks the cardiovascular system and that is why the ventilators alone have not been effective.

 

[Myrtleknight]

I’m worried that these marches are going to give everyone a false sense of security. Almost all the SSEs on record have occurred in enclosed spaces where hugging, handshaking and close contact happens. Funerals, birthdays, bars and otherwise life events. A couple of offices and restaurants have also been documented. The only instance of maybe a SSE occurring outside was at the Italian soccer game in the winter. And that has not been verified.

Super Spreading Event - SSE

 

[RU848789]

That's assuming that the relationship between population density and community spread is proportional. I would submit that it is not.

Density is an important factor, but it's not the only one. My main point was that the densities of the Nordic countries are very likely not what's driving the transmission rate differences - it's much more likely to be the much more aggressive interventions in Finland and Norway vs. Sweden and is why I had Germany and Denmark in that table to show that density is not nearly as important as interventions. Figuring out how much to ascribe to which intervention (shutdowns, distancing, masks, testing-tracing-isolating, especially early, etc.) is nearly impossible, but clearly the sum total of those was much more in Finland/Norway and much more important than any small difference in density.

 

[RU848789]

I’m worried that these marches are going to give everyone a false sense of security. Almost all the SSEs on record have occurred in enclosed spaces where hugging, handshaking and close contact happens. Funerals, birthdays, bars and otherwise life events. A couple of offices and restaurants have also been documented. The only instance of maybe a SSE occurring outside was at the Italian soccer game in the winter. And that has not been verified.

Super Spreading Event - SSE

Much of the research on spreading events came from China and I guarantee you there were far, far more indoor events in winter in Wuhan when the virus was raging than outdoor events - that skews the comparison, IMO. We don't yet have data for many outdoor events without masks/distancing apart from some data from FL spring break and Mardi Gras, but hard to know how much of Mardi Gras was due to very close crowds indoors vs. outdoors.

My position all along has been that close, crowded conditions outdoors at concerts or sporting events, for example (absent very windy conditions) is just as likely to lead to transmission as indoors. Most of the protesters I saw, however, had masks and people weren't generally packed as close as they are at a concert or sporting event, so I don't think we have enough data yet. I have very low concerns over outside transmission at over about 3-4 feet distance (and especially if wearing a mask, of course).

 

[ashokan]

And I don't think shutting things back down is the answer, but I do suspect AZ was not taking this too seriously. I suspect this because I talk to a lot of people in NJ who are still comparing this to the flu.

Yes the "its just like the flu" thing was off the hook. The massively over-inflated flu death stats lulled people into dismissing CV19. Then the CV19 truthers got going (as did the exaggerators).

Right now, I'm wondering if the heat/AC thing is driving some CV. The temps in AZ have been off the hook - way over 100 every day in Phoenix. I assume more people might be heading indoors and populating interior spaces. There was also a question of AC spreading CV since one Chinese study documented it (people downline from the AC direction got infected more than others)



https://weather.com/weather/tenday/...fc4f6a3628b6e13228e32d0a57fb643144293f78ca339



"Winter weather tends to inspire people to spend more time indoors, although air conditioning may also bring people back inside in the summer."

https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/202...ters-health-coronavirus-summer-explainer.html

 

[Myrtleknight]

Much of the research on spreading events came from China and I guarantee you there were far, far more indoor events in winter in Wuhan when the virus was raging than outdoor events - that skews the comparison, IMO. We don't yet have data for many outdoor events without masks/distancing apart from some data from FL spring break and Mardi Gras, but hard to know how much of Mardi Gras was due to very close crowds indoors vs. outdoors.

My position all along has been that close, crowded conditions outdoors at concerts or sporting events, for example (absent very windy conditions) is just as likely to lead to transmission as indoors. Most of the protesters I saw, however, had masks and people weren't generally packed as close as they are at a concert or sporting event, so I don't think we have enough data yet. I have very low concerns over outside transmission at over about 3-4 feet distance (and especially if wearing a mask, of course).

Off the top of my head and there has been many other documented SSEs outside of China. The New Rochelle patient went to a religious event, then a birthday party, the office, mass transit and I believe one other place. The bartender in the Italian alps. A office in NYC. The South Korean church. The Diamond Princess.

 

[RU848789]

Off the top of my head and there has been many other documented SSEs outside of China. The New Rochelle patient went to a religious event, then a birthday party, the office, mass transit and I believe one other place. The bartender in the Italian alps. A office in NYC. The South Korean church. The Diamond Princess.

I was talking about outdoor events and didn't make that clear up front - most of the research on outdoor significant spreading events has come from China, when it was cold and since it has warmed up in the US/Europe, when there would normally be more large crowded outdoor events, those events have been largely cancelled. However, many experts suspect that several European soccer matches were at least partly responsible for the huge outbreaks in Northern Italy (after the Atalanta - Valencia UEFA match on 2/19 in Milan that drew 40K from Bergamo, the hardest hit area in Italy), Spain and England. The story of the Italian outbreak in Bergamo is below.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...ons-league-italy-crisis-bergamo-a9448541.html

 

[Knight177lb]

That's a massive part of the population. You know that, right? Like way over half.

So ...how do you do that?

I doubt it's half, but they have to do a better job at screening employees and cleaning at nursing homes. For the most part, people have to be responsible for themselves. Open up the stores to everyone, but if you have asthma, you shouldn't go.

 

[Knight177lb]

while no one in your family has died (hopefully) of Corona virus, I guess you don't give a damn about the 110,000 dead Americans who are dead. You don't get paid to work when you are dead. See how easy your logic is. No deaths are un an upward trend, they had 78 today.

The dead Americans are dead? LOL. Good thing for you the liquor stores are still open.

I care about all people, but don't pretend like you give a Damm about anyone but yourself. How are you staying alive? I'm sure you've eaten since this started. How did you get your food? Was it delivered? So you're OK with someone else exposing themselves as long as it's not you?

I want everyone to live. Unfortunately, that's not possible, so why not try and limit the harm? Just let us healthy able bodied people go back to work and start to put this economy back together.

Once the state files bankruptcy and you stop getting your pension, you're going to change your mind real quick and start pushing for everyone to open up.

 

[RU848789]

I have no agenda, but I do have empathy. I feel bad for the millions of unemployed and the millions with no prospects. If opening up businesses helps those people and it doesn't result to large increase in deaths from COVID, then we should open up. There's no way we're going to get down to zero, but we have to think about the amount of deaths and misery the shut down is causing.

But there are ways to reopen with little to no transmission - we just keep choosing to not follow those ways (and didn't follow them in the first wave). It's a false choice - it's not the economy or public health, it's both. Take a spin through the attached post, with my summary of it or just go right to the McKinsey analysis of reopening strategies that's linked in the post. It might change your mind or at least make you think.

https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/t...entions-and-more.191275/page-115#post-4562473

 

[formerlyknownasrutgers100]

The dead Americans are dead? LOL. Good thing for you the liquor stores are still open.

I care about all people, but don't pretend like you give a Damm about anyone but yourself. How are you staying alive? I'm sure you've eaten since this started. How did you get your food? Was it delivered? So you're OK with someone else exposing themselves as long as it's not you?

I want everyone to live. Unfortunately, that's not possible, so why not try and limit the harm? Just let us healthy able bodied people go back to work and start to put this economy back together.

Once the state files bankruptcy and you stop getting your pension, you're going to change your mind real quick and start pushing for everyone to open up.

As numbers said it’s not an either or choice. If you cared about all people maybe you would care that sweden had 78 deaths today but you didn’t. 31 percent of Americans polled this week said they would eat at a restaurant. 69 percent wouldn’t so you can keep screaming open up open up all you want. Things are opening up anyway.

 

[Knight177lb]

As numbers said it’s not an either or choice. If you cared about all people maybe you would care that sweden had 78 deaths today but you didn’t. 31 percent of Americans polled this week said they would eat at a restaurant. 69 percent wouldn’t so you can keep screaming open up open up all you want. Things are opening up anyway.

I didn't know them, but I feel bad that they died because I have empathy. I also feel bad for the small business person who was one of the arbitrary businesses picked to fail. You have not shown any empathy whatsoever for any of the unemployed or those who are losing their businesses, savings, and homes.

Now that the damage is done, what advice do have to someone who was laid off and has no hope of going back to work after their unemployment runs out? What advice do you have for the barber, dry cleaner, restaurant owner, shoe store owner, or any one of the arbitrary businesses that couldn't get a PPP loan because big business came in and swept up all the funds?

 

[formerlyknownasrutgers100]

I didn't know them, but I feel bad that they died because I have empathy. I also feel bad for the small business person who was one of the arbitrary businesses picked to fail. You have not shown any empathy whatsoever for any of the unemployed or those who are losing their businesses, savings, and homes.

Now that the damage is done, what advice do have to someone who was laid off and has no hope of going back to work after their unemployment runs out? What advice do you have for the barber, dry cleaner, restaurant owner, shoe store owner, or any one of the arbitrary businesses that couldn't get a PPP loan because big business came in and swept up all the funds?

vote for people that take pandemics seriously, and care about you, and and don't let big businesses take what was not intended for them. Again businesses are opening up now. Obviously some will not reopen but that happened in 08-09 too and happens to tons of them every year. It would be pretty stupid to just open everything tomorrow after all that was done to flatten the curve. I feel worse for dead people than unemployed people, many of those who died because of catching the virus at their job. Now they will never enjoy life again and their family's are devastated permanently. One political party has tried to provide additional funding for those whose business has failed, and who are still out of work, the other has rejected those ideas. Millions of Americans go hungry every year, now it's more than before, but that is what the free market dictated should occur, where is our empathy for those people every year who go hungry, or who can't make enough? Millions of Americans lost all of that too in 08-09, while CEO's took bonuses even though their policies robbed those Americans of their jobs, dreams, homes, and savings. Have you been calling for reparations for those victims over the last ten years, have you been calling for those Ceo's to be jailed? Do you support raising the minimum wage? Hopefully recovery is quick. My advice to those people is vote blue, and keep applying to any job out there, I know of someone who just got hired out of college yesterday at a great company. She has spent 5 months applying and being met with pandemic related rejections, and she kept working her butt off sending in hundreds of applications, and was successful.

 

[fsg2]

I doubt it's half, but they have to do a better job at screening employees and cleaning at nursing homes. For the most part, people have to be responsible for themselves. Open up the stores to everyone, but if you have asthma, you shouldn't go.

40 percent adults obese, 70 percent overweight: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/obesity-overweight.htm

So you're right, well more than half the adult pop.

 

[Knight177lb]

vote for people that take pandemics seriously, and care about you, and and don't let big businesses take what was not intended for them. Again businesses are opening up now. Obviously some will not reopen but that happened in 08-09 too and happens to tons of them every year. It would be pretty stupid to just open everything tomorrow after all that was done to flatten the curve. I feel worse for dead people than unemployed people, many of those who died because of catching the virus at their job. Now they will never enjoy life again and their family's are devastated permanently. One political party has tried to provide additional funding for those whose business has failed, and who are still out of work, the other has rejected those ideas. Millions of Americans go hungry every year, now it's more than before, but that is what the free market dictated should occur, where is our empathy for those people every year who go hungry, or who can't make enough? Millions of Americans lost all of that too in 08-09, while CEO's took bonuses even though their policies robbed those Americans of their jobs, dreams, homes, and savings. Have you been calling for reparations for those victims over the last ten years, have you been calling for those Ceo's to be jailed? Do you support raising the minimum wage? Hopefully recovery is quick. My advice to those people is vote blue, and keep applying to any job out there, I know of someone who just got hired out of college yesterday at a great company. She has spent 5 months applying and being met with pandemic related rejections, and she kept working her butt off sending in hundreds of applications, and was successful.

I do vote for people that care about me. That's why I didn't vote for Trump. Nice of you to just to assume that I did. This is much worse than 08-09 and the damages are going to be far worse. So just telling someone to pull themselves up by their boot straps isn't going to work. They can also vote blue in November, but that's not going to give them a paycheck.

 

[Knight177lb]

40 percent adults obese, 70 percent overweight: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/obesity-overweight.htm

So you're right, well more than half the adult pop.

OK, just lock yourself in a room until you die of something else. Then declare victory.

 

[formerlyknownasrutgers100]

I do vote for people that care about me. That's why I didn't vote for Trump. Nice of you to just to assume that I did. This is much worse than 08-09 and the damages are going to be far worse. So just telling someone to pull themselves up by their boot straps isn't going to work. They can also vote blue in November, but that's not going to give them a paycheck.

I didn't assume anything. I asked you questions. Yes, this is way worse, and more should be done to help people, but at least something can be done to help them they are not dead. 112,000 Americans cannot be helped. The country has turned a blind eye to poverty and hunger for a long time, and now that it's more people suffering from it there is a bigger spotlight on it. Ya, voting Blue won't give them a paycheck, but Amazon is hiring, as is Wallmart. We wouldn't be in this mess nearly as bad as we are, if we took this seriously. But we all know that didn't happen. Elections have consequences, and in this case it cost people monetarily, and for other people their life.

 

[fsg2]

OK, just lock yourself in a room until you die of something else. Then declare victory.

Lame response. You said to let all the old, overweight and other vulnerable pops stay confined while all those strong, healthy folks get back to work. Your idea, not mine.

So what happens to that idea when 3/4 of the population is in the vulnerable shut-in category? That's a lot of people not working and not out consuming.

Not really so simple.

 

[Knight177lb]

I didn't assume anything. I asked you questions. Yes, this is way worse, and more should be done to help people, but at least something can be done to help them they are not dead. 112,000 Americans cannot be helped. The country has turned a blind eye to poverty and hunger for a long time, and now that it's more people suffering from it there is a bigger spotlight on it. Ya, voting Blue won't give them a paycheck, but Amazon is hiring, as is Wallmart. We wouldn't be in this mess nearly as bad as we are, if we took this seriously. But we all know that didn't happen. Elections have consequences, and in this case it cost people monetarily, and for other people their life.

We wouldn't have destroyed the economy if we used common sense and didn't randomly shut down businesses. Somehow the virus is all over Bed, Bath, & Beyond, but doesn't exist in any liquor store. Glad to hear Amazon is hiring. They're going to be only one around. What do we do when those jobs fill up? Hope you like living in a world where the only stores are Target and Walmart and the only airline is American. But somehow, things aren't bad enough for you.

 

[formerlyknownasrutgers100]

We wouldn't have destroyed the economy if we used common sense and didn't randomly shut down businesses. Somehow the virus is all over Bed, Bath, & Beyond, but doesn't exist in any liquor store. Glad to hear Amazon is hiring. They're going to be only one around. What do we do when those jobs fill up? Hope you like living in a world where the only stores are Target and Walmart and the only airline is American. But somehow, things aren't bad enough for you.

I forgot that things are permanent. My bad. Explains why we never got out of the Great Depression. Liquor stores were kept open so hospitals didn’t have space taken up by withdrawing alcoholics. The government bails people out. They bail out all these companies, they’ll bail out people too or we will have a bad economy. It’s the government’s and ultimately the voters choice. Maybe this will open some peoples eyes to how the other half lives. Is your point we should have never locked down?

 

[rutgersguy1]

Good news out of that Missouri Great Clips where both the stylists and clients all wore masks and stylists were symptomatic. All 140 clients (46 who tested negative) have no symptoms after 2 weeks quarantine. I don't know if you can expect 0% transmission with masks but definitely think it's a good sign masks reduce transmission even in close contact somewhat prolonged contact.

From the article:

Two Missouri hairstylists who worked while they had coronavirus did not infect the 140 clients they served even though they had symptoms at the time, local health officials said.

The clients and the stylists all wore face coverings, and the salon had set up other measures such as social distancing of chairs and staggered appointments, the Springfield-Greene County Health Department said this week.

Of the 140 clients and seven co-workers potentially exposed, 46 took tests that came back negative. All the others were quarantined for the duration of the coronavirus incubation period. The 14-day incubation period has now passed with no new infections linked to the salon, county health officials said.

During the quarantine, those who did not get tested got a call twice a day from health officials asking whether they had symptoms related to Covid-19, said Kathryn Wall, a spokeswoman for the Springfield-Green County Health Department.

County health officials called the results encouraging, and said they're looking into the case for insight on how to stop the spread and help with efforts on future research.

"This is exciting news about the value of masking to prevent Covid-19," said Clay Goddard, the county's director of health. "We are studying more closely the details of these exposures, including what types of face coverings were worn and what other precautions were taken to lead to this encouraging result."

Studies have found that physical distancing and the use of a mask are the two best ways to prevent coronavirus transmission.

This month, a study published in the Lancet medical journal found people should stay six feet apart and wear face coverings. It said the chance of transmission without a face mask was 17.4%, while that fell to 3.1% when a mask was worn.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/11/us/missouri-hairstylists-coronavirus-clients-trnd/index.html

 

[RU-05]

NJ get's it's 7 day average of positivity rates below 2%.

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/testing/individual-states/new-jersey

 

[rutgersguy1]

Yes the "its just like the flu" thing was off the hook. The massively over-inflated flu death stats lulled people into dismissing CV19. Then the CV19 truthers got going (as did the exaggerators).

Right now, I'm wondering if the heat/AC thing is driving some CV. The temps in AZ have been off the hook - way over 100 every day in Phoenix. I assume more people might be heading indoors and populating interior spaces. There was also a question of AC spreading CV since one Chinese study documented it (people downline from the AC direction got infected more than others)



https://weather.com/weather/tenday/...fc4f6a3628b6e13228e32d0a57fb643144293f78ca339



"Winter weather tends to inspire people to spend more time indoors, although air conditioning may also bring people back inside in the summer."

https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/202...ters-health-coronavirus-summer-explainer.html

I think it's possible and something I mentioned about Singapore way back when some transmission increases were happening. It's might be hot/humid but many places are air conditioned and people might be staying inside more.

 

[Plum Street]

I have two weddings to attend in October. One in New Jersey and one in PA. They haven’t been cancelled yet . Think they will happen? I had one in August that was postponed

 

[RU-05]

I have two weddings to attend in October. One in New Jersey and one in PA. They haven’t been cancelled yet . Think they will happen? I had one in August that was postponed

I think they happen, probably not as many hugs and hand shakes as usual, and find a nice mask which matches your suit.

 

[tom1944]

I have two weddings to attend in October. One in New Jersey and one in PA. They haven’t been cancelled yet . Think they will happen? I had one in August that was postponed

I have one. I think the guest list has to be cut down so the family will have to make difficult choices.
I expect my save the date will not end up with an invitation

 

[RU-05]

I have one. I think the guest list has to be cut down so the family will have to make difficult choices.
I expect my save the date will not end up with an invitation

Personally I'd be quick to volunteer.

 

[RU23]

I have two weddings to attend in October. One in New Jersey and one in PA. They haven’t been cancelled yet . Think they will happen? I had one in August that was postponed

Cousin was supposed to get married in March, she pushed it to September. Was gonna be a very small wedding anyway so I think it’ll happen. Just gonna be so, so weird.

 

[RU#1fan]

Only going to get worse too. Perhaps much worse in fall.

And I don't think shutting things back down is the answer, but I do suspect AZ was not taking this too seriously. I suspect this because I talk to a lot of people in NJ who are still comparing this to the flu.

This.
And there are some idiots on this board that still question the need to wear a mask or social distancing.