OT: B1G additions

[RUTGERS95]

I need to sit it out? So what “coveted” market does UVa bring?

not a single one
we have the dma we wanted with md addition

va brings nothing really and uva is filler for academics only. if you get the big 3, uva looks good
if you don't get the big 3 then uva is sitting out

nd, fsu, unc
no one else moves the dial

 

[RUTGERS95]

ND has history with the following B1G schools

Michigan
PennState
Purdue
USC
Michigan State
Indiana
3 of those 6 can be yearly contest. How great for our partners to have
Ohio St vs Michigan at noon
Penn St vs Notre Dame at 4 pm each year.

They can still play 3 out of conference games
Navy
Boston College
Stanford

I’m not sure how that’s weaker than their schedule now

don't forget usc

ND wants national, no one is more national than BIG and ND can play coast to coast against the marquee names in cfb. It's a no brainer but big pocket donors have threatened to pull if they leave indy status. of course nbc overpaid as well

 

[RUHEADHUNTER]

don't forget usc

ND wants national, no one is more national than BIG and ND can play coast to coast against the marquee names in cfb. It's a no brainer but big pocket donors have threatened to pull if they leave indy status. of course nbc overpaid as well

If the pieces fall the way some think, ND doesn’t have much of a choice then to jump into the Big.

 

[RUHEADHUNTER]

@RUTGERS95 in your opinion, what number does the Big stop at and do they go to a regionalized pod system?

 

[kupuna133]

Of course they were having discussions with others but their first goal was sticking together. They could have jumped ship any time especially to the B12 but they were stringing it out waiting to see if they could get a manageable tv deal. It wasn’t even less money as much as the lack of exposure that was the deal breaker. The B12 was waiting with open arms and Yormark was courting them for awhile so they could go anytime to the B12 but they didn’t until the very end.

Even reports Phil Knight was warming up to the idea of just being exclusive on Apple.

Read articles about when it went down, think it may have been in the Athletic, and how really up until the last moment things were uncertain and quite a few thought the PAC was about to hold together.

If they wanted to stay together they would have. They realized they couldn’t and did everything they could to not be Oregon state and Washington state. There was nothing different in their tactics than what happened to the destruction of the big east. Everyone said they were loyal until they weren’t.

 

[RUTGERS95]

@RUTGERS95 in your opinion, what number does the Big stop at and do they go to a regionalized pod system?

law of diminishing returns will begin to apply here and further collapse of other conferences is the only thing that pushes that law out

now the thing to think about is this; ND value is becoming less of a positive to move the needle, just look at their recent nbc deal which is less than BIG teams get. At some point, you cross the rubicon and number of teams added becomes an impediment to getting more regardless of who they are. ND has some serious questions to ponder right now and especially if FSU is able to leave because BIG needs to add next and only the combo of FSU/ND or FSU/UNC adds value. After that, ND and one else not in the SEC would move the needle

law of diminishing returns

 

[RUTGERS95]

If the pieces fall the way some think, ND doesn’t have much of a choice then to jump into the Big.

no they dont' as they have already said scheduling is becoming more difficult

ND new nbc deal is less than BIG schools. At some point, even adding them won't make sense for the BIG unless the other conferences collapse freeing up monies.

interesting times

 

[rutgersguy1]

If they wanted to stay together they would have. They realized they couldn’t and did everything they could to not be Oregon state and Washington state. There was nothing different in their tactics than what happened to the destruction of the big east. Everyone said they were loyal until they weren’t.

I don't think you can just flatly just say if they wanted to stay together they would have. I think the point is are the conditions good enough (not the best or necessarily even all that good) to allow them to do what they want or are they not good enough to a point where they are forced to do something they don't want. There needs to be at least some minimum requirements met.

The PAC was searching for a deal that could allow them to stay together and it didn't have to be the best. They overestimated their value at first and turned down a similar deal that the B12 got, Hindsight is 20/20. They would have taken that deal at the end and stayed together even at less money. Apple offered them 23M with incentives up to 25M which was less than the B12. I think they would've accepted money like that too and stayed together if there was at least some linear tv component but they couldn't get one. That was the breaking point on top of the money.

Schools could have left at any time to the B12, why didn't they. It was strung along for a little more than a year iirc. Colorado was the one with the most intense talks with the B12 and the first to jump but they didn't jump immediately. They too were waiting as long as they thought they could and stringing it out to see if any manageable tv deal would come along to stay in the PAC. It never came.

Even if they had stayed together, I think it was just a matter of time before it came apart, maybe 1 or 2 tv contracts away. Things just got pushed forward. But the point is schools generally don't want to leave their "comfortable home," they do it when they feel they have no choice and are forced to do so.

 

[kupuna133]

I don't think you can just flatly just say if they wanted to stay together they would have. I think the point is are the conditions good enough (not the best or necessarily even all that good) to allow them to do what they want or are they not good enough to a point where they are forced to do something they don't want. There needs to be at least some minimum requirements met.

The PAC was searching for a deal that could allow them to stay together and it didn't have to be the best. They overestimated their value at first and turned down a similar deal that the B12 got, Hindsight is 20/20. They would have taken that deal at the end and stayed together even at less money. Apple offered them 23M with incentives up to 25M which was less than the B12. I think they would've accepted money like that too and stayed together if there was at least some linear tv component but they couldn't get one. That was the breaking point on top of the money.

Schools could have left at any time to the B12, why didn't they. It was strung along for a little more than a year iirc. Colorado was the one with the most intense talks with the B12 and the first to jump but they didn't jump immediately. They too were waiting as long as they thought they could and stringing it out to see if any manageable tv deal would come along to stay in the PAC. It never came.

Even if they had stayed together, I think it was just a matter of time before it came apart, maybe 1 or 2 tv contracts away. Things just got pushed forward. But the point is schools generally don't want to leave their "comfortable home," they do it when they feel they have no choice and are forced to do so.

You’re actually making my point. With this statement.

. I think the point is are the conditions good enough (not the best or necessarily even all that good) to allow them to do what they want or are they not good enough to a point where they are forced to do something they don't want. There needs to be at least some minimum requirements met.

The PAC once the top 2 teams left was not viable. They all started looking for the exits. They quickly realized the conditions were not good enough. Stayed together long enough for the landing spots to be ironed out and parachuted once confirmed. They couldn’t stay at reduced rates because the next 5 (Oregon Washington Arizona and Arizona State) knew their athletic departments survival would be at risk and they didn’t want to be on the outside looking in with realignment.

 

[RUTGERS95]

You’re actually making my point. With this statement.


The PAC once the top 2 teams left was not viable. They all started looking for the exits. They quickly realized the conditions were not good enough. Stayed together long enough for the landing spots to be ironed out and parachuted once confirmed. They couldn’t stay at reduced rates because the next 5 (Oregon Washington Arizona and Arizona State) knew their athletic departments survival would be at risk and they didn’t want to be on the outside looking in with realignment.

you are spot on here

whats amazing is to think about osu and wsu being left out. Now imagine you're the ACC schools not named FSU, UNC and you have to be thinking about the next move

Wake, Fredo, Sarah, Pitt etc all must be real nervous. Can the B12 add them and not lose money or keep the same payouts? I don't think so which is why I think a hybrid approach of sorts

not sure what will happen but I hope the B12 and ACC implode as it means more for our schools/conference

 

[rutgersguy1]

You’re actually making my point. With this statement.


The PAC once the top 2 teams left was not viable. They all started looking for the exits. They quickly realized the conditions were not good enough. Stayed together long enough for the landing spots to be ironed out and parachuted once confirmed. They couldn’t stay at reduced rates because the next 5 (Oregon Washington Arizona and Arizona State) knew their athletic departments survival would be at risk and they didn’t want to be on the outside looking in with realignment.

I don't think that makes your point because you make it sound like they all would jump ship as soon as they could but they didn't. Why were they stringing it out for so long? B12 and Yormark were there all along and they had a pro rata deal ready for P5 additions too. Any one of them could have jumped way sooner than they did. They were stringing it out to look for any alternative to try and stay together. Oregon and Washington didn't leave until the very end either.

The PAC teams that went to the B12 would have made about 23-25M vs 30M in the B12. I don't think their ADs survival would be at risk over a few million and I don't think that was enough of a motivator to move anyone. It's lack of linear tv that pushed it over the edge.

I agree eventually they would break up because it becomes untenable but that didn't necessarily have to be right now.

 

[kupuna133]

I don't think that makes your point because you make it sound like they all would jump ship as soon as they could but they didn't. Why were they stringing it out for so long? B12 and Yormark were there all along and they had a pro rata deal ready for P5 additions too. Any one of them could have jumped way sooner than they did. They were stringing it out to look for any alternative to try and stay together. Oregon and Washington didn't leave until the very end either.

The PAC teams that went to the B12 would have made about 23-25M vs 30M in the B12. I don't think their ADs survival would be at risk over a few million and I don't think that was enough of a motivator to move anyone. It's lack of linear tv that pushed it over the edge.

I agree eventually they would break up because it becomes untenable but that didn't necessarily have to be right now.

You do realize they all start on their new conferences next year. They left much earlier than announced. The staying together was all window dressing and theatrics. They had to act in concert so as not be the one school to be labeled as delivering the death blow to the conference.

And to your AD comment. Do you think being 50-75M behind the 2 power conference is something that has long term viability. This “merger” had less to do with present value but future value. And if they had stayed together in the PAC they knew they had no value.

 

[JayDogSmooth]

This tweet is not wrong

View embedded media

SMU talking shit on anyone, ever, after what they pulled in the past, is laughable at best

Ford is a graveyard and the ponies are the 6th most popular team in their own city

Since Wel only be going there once, and Dallas isn’t a destination city, and the aforementioned high school looking stadium is a mourge, I highly doubt many Noles, living outside the state of Texas, will be making the trip

I’ll always root for them bc they are a thorn in the side to UT/Aggie/etc, but this poster can eat a bag of dicks

 

[Shelby65]

rethink that statement

its not about the BIG for some, it's about the next best thing and having options

But there are no better conference options. Maybe they’re all aiming for a more lucrative ACC deal…ripping up the old one.

 

[RUTGERS95]

interesting data all the way through and RU did well!!!!!

What college football teams are the most popular to watch on TV?

When it comes to college football ratings, teams in the big conferences are the ones that get the big numbers. […]

sportsnaut.com

 

[rutgersguy1]

You do realize they all start on their new conferences next year. They left much earlier than announced. The staying together was all window dressing and theatrics. They had to act in concert so as not be the one school to be labeled as delivering the death blow to the conference.

And to your AD comment. Do you think being 50-75M behind the 2 power conference is something that has long term viability. This “merger” had less to do with present value but future value. And if they had stayed together in the PAC they knew they had no value.

I’m aware they’re all starting in their new conferences next year. Also I’m not talking about long term viability.

Im not saying they were going to stay together forever I’m saying they were going to stay together as long as possible even if that meant taking a deal that might i not have been the best. But it still needed to meet some minimum requirements which it didn’t as far as linear tv.

It was a band aid but they would’ve been okay with that band aid for the time being and the next tv deal.

Colorado ASU Utah Arizona are going to make 30M. They would’ve been fine making 23-25M in the PAC if they had linear tv. Oregon and Washington probably would’ve been fine too as they also are making 30M in the B10 but with a lot more travel and complications. They might have preferred to stick it out in the PAC until the next B10 deal came up in 2030 where they could get a much larger share of the money.

It would’ve been a temporary thing but probably would’ve held through the next tv contract.

 

[JayDogSmooth]

interesting data all the way through and RU did well!!!!!

What college football teams are the most popular to watch on TV?

When it comes to college football ratings, teams in the big conferences are the ones that get the big numbers. […]

sportsnaut.com

Surprised Tennessee & Washington are that high, and UF & Clemson are that low

 

[kupuna133]

I’m aware they’re all starting in their new conferences next year. Also I’m not talking about long term viability.

Im not saying they were going to stay together forever I’m saying they were going to stay together as long as possible even if that meant taking a deal that might i not have been the best. But it still needed to meet some minimum requirements which it didn’t as far as linear tv.

It was a band aid but they would’ve been okay with that band aid for the time being and the next tv deal.

Colorado ASU Utah Arizona are going to make 30M. They would’ve been fine making 23-25M in the PAC if they had linear tv. Oregon and Washington probably would’ve been fine too as they also are making 30M in the B10 but with a lot more travel and complications. They might have preferred to stick it out in the PAC until the next B10 deal came up in 2030 where they could get a much larger share of the money.

It would’ve been a temporary thing but probably would’ve held through the next tv contract.

That’s a lot of words that can be summed up right here


“Im not saying they were going to stay together forever I’m saying they were going to stay together as long as possible”

They stayed together as long as it took for them to get out. I am not sure what point you are trying to make any more. Signing another contract a “band aid” as you call it. Only would have lead to the PAC being further behind and each school less attractive 6-10 years down the road. It would have delayed the inevitable. They left because the next 5 knew it wasn’t viable and moved on. The PAC was dead as soon as USC and UCLA left. Oregon and Washington petitioned the B1G immediately and were told no not yet. They definitely were not happy with staying in the PAC

As soon as the media deals produced a giant nothing burger validated what they all knew and had prepared for. Parachute pulled.

 

[RUTGERS95]

Surprised Tennessee & Washington are that high, and UF & Clemson are that low

Tennesee yes surprised , Washington no. Udbub is a powerhouse and with the BIG news and excitement, I can see it. For TN, loss of words as I don't know a single person that watches them or has watched them. I couldn't even tell you when they play lol I do believe that SEC folks watch SEC football so the numbers are inflated. We don't watch teams in conference we don't care about but local in SEC country has all those games, helping the data. imho

UF and Clemson I don't know. I have said that the only people that care about Clemson are Clemson alum. Man that school was the safety of safety schools growing up in the middle of nowhere. Yes things have changes but in the large media markets, where is the tie in for them? That is why the BIG conference matters with it's national appeal. Just look at RU at over 1mm with more established brands. Power of the BIG and why I said when FSU is in, FSU numbers explode.

 

[rutgersguy1]

That’s a lot of words that can be summed up right here


“Im not saying they were going to stay together forever I’m saying they were going to stay together as long as possible”

They stayed together as long as it took for them to get out. I am not sure what point you are trying to make any more. Signing another contract a “band aid” as you call it. Only would have lead to the PAC being further behind and each school less attractive 6-10 years down the road. It would have delayed the inevitable. They left because the next 5 knew it wasn’t viable and moved on. The PAC was dead as soon as USC and UCLA left. Oregon and Washington petitioned the B1G immediately and were told no not yet. They definitely were not happy with staying in the PAC

As soon as the media deals produced a giant nothing burger validated what they all knew and had prepared for. Parachute pulled.

I don’t think their attractiveness for their prospective landing spots would’ve been any different in 7 years than they are now.

I’ve always said the B10 wasn’t going to leave USC and UCLA as lone western outposts indefinitely and that premise wouldn’t have changed in 7 years with regards to Oregon and Washington. Same holds for the the 4 corners schools and the B12. The B12 isn’t getting better options than them in 7 years. It’s the conference whose strength is derived from the fact that they’re unwanted together so it’s not like better schools were going to come knocking down their door.

You originally rebutted my point that generally schools, even the crumbling PAC, don’t want to leave their current home. You said they were looking for nearest and quickest exit. I’m saying I don’t that was the case necessarily. Some of them were looking at options but they were doing their best to find a way to stay together which was my original point of schools in general not wanting to leave until absolutely forced which is what the lack of linear tv did to the PAC schools.

You’re saying it was just for show but I don’t think so. I think they genuinely wanted to stick together for as long as possible even with a temporary band aid. ASU’s president was the biggest supporter for the PAC holding together and Utah barely wanted to acknowledge the B12. Colorado was in long talks with the B12 and Arizona was somewhat luke warm but everyone wanted to stick together if they could.

In the end, it doesn’t matter it’s all done and I don’t particularly want to go back and forth forever on it.

 

[kupuna133]

I don’t think their attractiveness for their prospective landing spots would’ve been any different in 7 years than they are now.

I’ve always said the B10 wasn’t going to leave USC and UCLA as lone western outposts indefinitely and that premise wouldn’t have changed in 7 years with regards to Oregon and Washington. Same holds for the the 4 corners schools and the B12. The B12 isn’t getting better options than them in 7 years. It’s the conference whose strength is derived from the fact that they’re unwanted together so it’s not like better schools were going to come knocking down their door.

You originally rebutted my point that generally schools, even the crumbling PAC, don’t want to leave their current home. You said they were looking for nearest and quickest exit. I’m saying I don’t that was the case necessarily. Some of them were looking at options but they were doing their best to find a way to stay together which was my original point of schools in general not wanting to leave until absolutely forced which is what the lack of linear tv did to the PAC schools.

You’re saying it was just for show but I don’t think so. I think they genuinely wanted to stick together for as long as possible even with a temporary band aid. ASU’s president was the biggest supporter for the PAC holding together and Utah barely wanted to acknowledge the B12. Colorado was in long talks with the B12 and Arizona was somewhat luke warm but everyone wanted to stick together if they could.

In the end, it doesn’t matter it’s all done and I don’t particularly want to go back and forth forever on it.

The fact they left and didn’t wait proved that they were looking for the fastest exit. If they weren’t the PAC would still be viable. Agree I’m done.

 

[Knight Shift]

SMU talking shit on anyone, ever, after what they pulled in the past, is laughable at best

Ford is a graveyard and the ponies are the 6th most popular team in their own city

Since Wel only be going there once, and Dallas isn’t a destination city, and the aforementioned high school looking stadium is a mourge, I highly doubt many Noles, living outside the state of Texas, will be making the trip

I’ll always root for them bc they are a thorn in the side to UT/Aggie/etc, but this poster can eat a bag of dicks

et tu Cal? Don't poke the bear! FSU making friends coast to coast!

 

[kupuna133]

et tu Cal? Don't poke the bear! FSU making friends coast to coast!

View embedded media

Yea. Don’t think 2 schools that no one wanted even at a discount, have the right to open their mouths in this conversation.

 

[Knight Shift]

Yea. Don’t think 2 schools that no one wanted even at a discount, have the right to open their mouths in this conversation.

I like Cal. Poor stepchild of Pac12 kind of like RU in B1G. Vocal contingent if anti football faculty too

 

[JayDogSmooth]

et tu Cal? Don't poke the bear! FSU making friends coast to coast!

View embedded media

lol stop man
That program is trash
Can’t wait to light them up next year in Tally

 

[RUTGERS95]

Yea. Don’t think 2 schools that no one wanted even at a discount, have the right to open their mouths in this conversation.

yup, it's moronic to even post that drivel

 

[JayDogSmooth]

Yea. Don’t think 2 schools that no one wanted even at a discount, have the right to open their mouths in this conversation.

I respect the hell out of Stanford
Their athletic dept is top notch, beautiful school and good historical football

I like SMU bc they’ll always be a hinderence to the big boys and care about winning

Cal though - not so much. Zero ****s given about them in any way, shape or form.

 

[kupuna133]

I like Cal. Poor stepchild of Pac12 kind of like RU in B1G. Vocal contingent if anti football faculty too

Yea don’t dislike either SMU or Cal but they need to know their place. If one of the longstanding ACC schools want to call out FSU have at it. I think FSU will create a problem for wherever they end up. They were okay running rough shod over the ACC for 20 years but all of a sudden there’s a rev discrepancy!

 

[JayDogSmooth]

Yea don’t dislike either SMU or Cal but they need to know their place. If one of the longstanding ACC schools want to call out FSU have at it. I think FSU will create a problem for wherever they end up. They were okay running rough shod over the ACC for 20 years but all of a sudden there’s a rev discrepancy!

I disagree, they basically sat idle for 30 years and didn’t say a damn thing (which is mind-boggling, considering they were getting hosed the majority of the time and took it lying down)

They only started making noise, or when the revenue gap got to be too big to overcome

 

[Knight Shift]

lol stop man
That program is trash
Can’t wait to light them up next year in Tally

Trash? What does that make FSU?

 

[RUTGERS95]

Yea don’t dislike either SMU or Cal but they need to know their place. If one of the longstanding ACC schools want to call out FSU have at it. I think FSU will create a problem for wherever they end up. They were okay running rough shod over the ACC for 20 years but all of a sudden there’s a rev discrepancy!

I disagree as they've carried the conference and have been good partners. It wasn't until the BIG and SEC started getting mega dollars that they did an analysis to determine what it would mean. I respect the hell out of them for caring this much about their school and brand and am jealous as fk as EVERY RU should be as well. They care and it shows while we debate 5% on a completion rate for the shittiest qb in college who wouldn't even sniff the locker room at FSU

 

[kupuna133]

I disagree, they basically sat idle for 30 years and didn’t say a damn thing (which is mind-boggling, considering they were getting hosed the majority of the time and took it lying down)

They only started making noise, or when the revenue gap got to be too big to overcome

Yea that’s my point. They knew there was a problem. They were okay being the only game in town for the conference. Until Clemson finally woke up and took the crown. FSU and the ACC were asleep at the switch since the mid 90s

 

[kupuna133]

I disagree as they've carried the conference and have been good partners. It wasn't until the BIG and SEC started getting mega dollars that they did an analysis to determine what it would mean. I respect the hell out of them for caring this much about their school and brand and am jealous as fk as EVERY RU should be as well. They care and it shows while we debate 5% on a completion rate for the shittiest qb in college who wouldn't even sniff the locker room at FSU

Will reply the same as I did jay.

I agree.

Yea that’s my point. They knew there was a problem. They were okay being the only game in town for the conference. Until Clemson finally woke up and took the crown. FSU and the ACC were asleep at the switch since the mid 90s

 

[JayDogSmooth]

Trash? What does that make FSU?

Top 10 brand
Dominant
Elite
Comparing the 2 programs in any tangible way is laughable at best

 

[JayDogSmooth]

Yea that’s my point. They knew there was a problem. They were okay being the only game in town for the conference. Until Clemson finally woke up and took the thrown. FSU and the ACC were asleep at the switch since the mid 90s

Clemson’s had the crown for 9 years
FSU started making noise only recently
Again, it when the $ discrepancy got too big

 

[RUTGERS95]

Top 10 brand
Dominant
Elite
Comparing the 2 programs in any tangible way is laughable at best

ignore him, he revels in being an ignorant antagonist. Anyone asking what does FSU bring is either stupid, myopic, blind or trying to start discourse. All the reasons to ignore

 

[kupuna133]

Clemson’s had the crown for 9 years
FSU started making noise only recently
Again, it when the $ discrepancy got too big

Yea that’s why I said they ran roughs shod over the conference for 20 years not 30. They didn’t carry the conference for the last 10 years when the discrepancy crept in. The power discrepancy within the conference has existed since they entered. It only became a money problem when they lost the power.

 

[cicero grimes]

no they dont' as they have already said scheduling is becoming more difficult

ND new nbc deal is less than BIG schools. At some point, even adding them won't make sense for the BIG unless the other conferences collapse freeing up monies.

interesting times

ND is the end game for the b1g. Getting fsu/unc destabilizes the acc and makes the ND scheduling alliance less tenable. The only question is when for ND and who comes along as the last b1g invitee. My guess is Stanford as a sweetener for ND and it does give you presence in the bay area.

 

[JayDogSmooth]

Yea that’s why I said they ran roughs shod over the conference for 20 years not 30. They didn’t carry the conference for the last 10 years when the discrepancy crept in. The power discrepancy within the conference has existed since they entered. It only became a money problem when they lost the power.

It became a money problem once Swofford sold the rights to Raycom and his son

 

[RUTGERS95]

ND is the end game for the b1g. Getting fsu/unc destabilizes the acc and makes the ND scheduling alliance less tenable. The only question is when for ND and who comes along as the last b1g invitee. My guess is Stanford as a sweetener for ND and it does give you presence in the bay area.

it's a great question really

let's say you get FSU and UNC which then drives ND to the table. You can really add anyone at that point so then what do you look for?

Stanford as you're right, Bay area, top academics/research, great olympic sports
MIami as it gives you two teams in Florida, growing mkt,
Clemson gives you what?
UVA gives you academics but you've got state politics with VT
Texas, can you convince them to leave SEC?

not really sure who is best that is realistic (Texas not realistic) to be honest as it's a push? Maybe Stanford is the best