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OT: B1G additions

jaydogsmooth1 said:
Yes it does
It's all about money
Period

If those schools were truly committed, the fans would be donating a ton of money
They'd be filling the stadium every Saturday, and expanding to larger capacities

They'd have a robust Booster program, NIL collective (s), and killer recruiting

None do.
Not one.

I commend WVU. But they're not truly committed to winning
I like Okie State - but they're just not committed enough to winning

Maybe a segment of their fan bases are. Pickens clearly was. The guy who's name is on the field at UH's new stadium likely is. and that's all nice and dandy

But on a whole, money talks
A small part of their fan bases might be passionate...but not nearly enough

I'm a fan of a school who's legit committed
That school backs it up by writing checks
I write checks b/c I want to see wins

Passion, commitment and Money go hand in hand
To suggest otherwise is foolish
Click to expand...
“If those schools were truly committed, the fans would be donating a ton of money
They'd be filling the stadium every Saturday, and expanding to larger capacities

They'd have a robust Booster program, NIL collective (s)”

FSU does none of those things. Lol
Can’t fill stadium on their own. Your words
Shrinking stadium not expanding
Complain that NIL isn’t were it needs to be and only after you got snubbed did it kick in.

And again, Big12 has a very high % of capacity week in and week out
 
vkj91 said:
“If those schools were truly committed, the fans would be donating a ton of money
They'd be filling the stadium every Saturday, and expanding to larger capacities

They'd have a robust Booster program, NIL collective (s)”

FSU does none of those things. Lol
Can’t fill stadium on their own. Your words
Shrinking stadium not expanding
Complain that NIL isn’t were it needs to be and only after you got snubbed did it kick in.

And again, Big12 has a very high % of capacity week in and week out
Click to expand...
Talk about being dead wrong on an issue, this one takes the cake

You're usually a pretty decent poster, but it looks like someone didn't eat their Wheaties today

No worries, the Smooth one is more than happy to educate you on these issues

Attendance
Stadium filled - this year, absolutely.
Most years, not an issue
During the down times, obviously it was more difficult

78,715 average crowd this year
One game not sold out
Capacity, 79,560
That's 99 % for all you math majors

You been to Tallahassee?
Beautiful city, scenic campus, smoking hot women, and kickass football... but not exactly the easiest place in the world to get to

70 % of season ticket holders come from 150 + miles away (not a typo)
Airport small and flights cost an insane amount of $ (most fans fly into Jax/TPA/MCO and drive 3-4 hours each way) - again, not a typo

The most remote major college program in relation to population rank cities this side of Pullman, Washington

Shrinking stadium to generate....wait for it...money!
Yes, money is important. You need money to compete.

What was once an 84k seat palace now seats 79,560 thanks to the beautiful, spacious and one-of-a-kind Champions Club, and will go down to upper 60's (68-69k) was the estimate as luxury boxes are going in

Note, with the impending B1G invite you and many others are looking forward to, we have the ability to increase capacity in the future if needed (don't worry, even if you can't get a seat at Doak, I'll hook you up)

You do realize this is the new trend, right?
Shrinking stadiums to make room for big $ seats (crazy idea , but there's this place called the Rac allegedly is doing the same thing)


NIL
Battles End is one of, if not the, top NIL collectives in the nation.
Not once did I, nor would I, complain about it.

In Ingram Smith's esteemed words "I'm confident we can be as competitive as we want to be in this space"

Jordan Travis
Johnny Wilson
Keon Coleman
Cedric Benson
Jared Verse
Brandon Fiske

All benefactors of our robust program.
All heavily contributed to your 2023 undefeated ACC champions.

Timelines are important my friend.
The snub came in December, long after Battles End had signed these guys and paved the way for the continuation of Seminole dominance.

Check out what we're doing in the portal this year
Mike owns it


Re. B12's capacity...

It's not hard to have a high capacity when the average stadium seats ~60k. OFTOMH and because I'm too lazy to look up...

TT = 65k
BYU = 65k
CU = 60k
Baylor = 50k
KU = 55k
ISU = 60k
Ok state = 65k
UCF = 45k
Houston = 50k
Cincy = 35k
TCU = 55k
WVU = 60k

I'm being nice and shooting high on a few, but you get the point. Not exactly the Big House, Beaver, Camp Randall, Ohio Stadium, Sparty, etc.

Forget about the SEC, sans Vandy I can't think of one that's smaller (possibly Mizzou)?

I'll talk college FB all day, and we can dispute whether the B12 is passionate, not passionate, all in, not all in, etc.

What's not debatable is they're not even in the same stratosphere as the B10 and SEC. That's reflected in the afore-mentioned metrics I provided for you, but most importantly, is reflected by the thing that matters most... money.

And for the B12 and their meager TV contract, that's simply not debatable no matter how you slice it
 
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jaydogsmooth1 said:
Talk about being dead wrong on an issue, this one takes the cake

You're usually a pretty decent poster, but it looks like someone didn't eat their Wheaties today

No worries, the Smooth one is more than happy to educate you on these issues

Attendance
Stadium filled - this year, absolutely.
Most years, not an issue
During the down times, obviously it was more difficult

78,715 average crowd this year
One game not sold out
Capacity, 79,560
That's 99 % for all you math majors

You been to Tallahassee?
Beautiful city, scenic campus, smoking hot women, and kickass football... but not exactly the easiest place in the world to get to

70 % of season ticket holders come from 150 + miles away (not a typo)
Airport small and flights cost an insane amount of $ (most fans fly into Jax/TPA/MCO and drive 3-4 hours each way) - again, not a typo

The most remote major college program in relation to population rank cities this side of Pullman, Washington

Shrinking stadium to generate....wait for it...money!
Yes, money is important. You need money to compete.

What was once an 84k seat palace now seats 79,560 thanks to the beautiful, spacious and one-of-a-kind Champions Club, and will go down to upper 60's (68-69k) was the estimate as luxury boxes are going in

Note, with the impending B1G invite you and many others are looking forward to, we have the ability to increase capacity in the future if needed (don't worry, even if you can't get a seat at Doak, I'll hook you up)

You do realize this is the new trend, right?
Shrinking stadiums to make room for big $ seats (crazy idea , but there's this place called the Rac allegedly is doing the same thing)


NIL
Battles End is one of, if not the, top NIL collectives in the nation.
Not once did I, nor would I, complain about it.

In Ingram Smith's esteemed words "I'm confident we can be as competitive as we want to be in this space"

Jordan Travis
Johnny Wilson
Keon Coleman
Cedric Benson
Jared Verse
Brandon Fiske

All benefactors of our robust program.
All heavily contributed to your 2023 undefeated ACC champions.

Timelines are important my friend.
The snub came in December, long after Battles End had signed these guys and paved the way for the continuation of Seminole dominance.

Check out what we're doing in the portal this year
Mike owns it


Re. B12's capacity...

It's not hard to have a high capacity when the average stadium seats ~60k. OFTOMH and because I'm too lazy to look up...

TT = 65k
BYU = 65k
CU = 60k
Baylor = 50k
KU = 55k
ISU = 60k
Ok state = 65k
UCF = 45k
Houston = 50k
Cincy = 35k
TCU = 55k
WVU = 60k

I'm being nice and shooting high on a few, but you get the point. Not exactly the Big House, Beaver, Camp Randall, Ohio Stadium, Sparty, etc.

Forget about the SEC, sans Vandy I can't think of one that's smaller (possibly Mizzou)?

I'll talk college FB all day, and we can dispute whether the B12 is passionate, not passionate, all in, not all in, etc.

What's not debatable is they're not even in the same stratosphere as the B10 and SEC. That's reflected in the afore-mentioned metrics I provided for you, but most importantly, is reflected by the thing that matters most... money.

And for the B12 and their meager TV contract, that's simply not debatable no matter how you slice it
Click to expand...
nobody is arguing that the BIG and SEC arent better. Nobody is arguing that they will continue to get stronger because of TV revenue. What we are arguing is your stance that they don't care. You have continually switched gears or pivoted in this thread. TV revenue is not proof that a school cares or supports their athletics or not
you post stadium size and say "well of course it's easy to fill these". Well the B!G has 7 stadiums under 65k. How do those schools do filling them?

You were the one who repeatedly said FSU can't fill their stadium alone. those are your words.
It was the writers on their 247 site complaining about NIL and actually quoting the guy who runs the collective.

For the 100th time, nobody is arguing that the B1G and SEC are the best, nobody is disputing that's were everyone wants to be. But i will continue to dispute that the schools or the fans don't care.

Maryland, Rutgers, Northwestern, Indiana, Purdue, Minnesota, Illinois
exactly zero of those schools care about football more than West Virginia, Texas Tech, TCU, BYU, Baylor, Houston, Cincinnatti etc

They are just blessed with better geography or not sharing a state with an existing B!G team
 
vkj91 said:
nobody is arguing that the BIG and SEC arent better. Nobody is arguing that they will continue to get stronger because of TV revenue. What we are arguing is your stance that they don't care. You have continually switched gears or pivoted in this thread. TV revenue is not proof that a school cares or supports their athletics or not
you post stadium size and say "well of course it's easy to fill these". Well the B!G has 7 stadiums under 65k. How do those schools do filling them?

You were the one who repeatedly said FSU can't fill their stadium alone. those are your words.
It was the writers on their 247 site complaining about NIL and actually quoting the guy who runs the collective.

For the 100th time, nobody is arguing that the B1G and SEC are the best, nobody is disputing that's were everyone wants to be. But i will continue to dispute that the schools or the fans don't care.

Maryland, Rutgers, Northwestern, Indiana, Purdue, Minnesota, Illinois
exactly zero of those schools care about football more than West Virginia, Texas Tech, TCU, BYU, Baylor, Houston, Cincinnatti etc

They are just blessed with better geography or not sharing a state with an existing B!G team
Click to expand...
I have never seen any FSU writer complain about our NIL - that would be a first

I've said the big 4 of WVU, BYU, Tech and Okie state are legit

Baylor not so much
TCU not so much
Houston.. no
Cincy.. no

I look at the conference on a whole, not just the bottom feeders. It's easy to cite Vandy or NW. Just like it's easy to cite Cincy or UCF.

B12 has some passionate schools, but on a whole, I don't see it
KU for bball, absoultey
Big 4 for football... yes

I'll even give ISU the nod bc they're fun to party with
The remainders though... not seeing it
 
The problem with Clemson is not whether they are All In.

The question is do they bring 70M plus alone. A definite NO to the SEC. If the SEC took Clemson, the BIG would be ecstatic. It dilutes the SEC while not taking a top brand. SC is a new market for the BIG, but they do not pay for themselves.

In any case the No brainers to the BIG are FSU, UNC and ND. The No Brainers to the SEC is UNC(Would ND even consider SEC if BIG is available). FSU likely pays for itself, but does the SEC need another Top15 team? Not really. So if the SEC takes FSU, it is probably more for defense - which i would do if i was them. I would think FSU brings more value to the SEC as does UVA. But my suspicion is they would want UVA just to have a team to beat up on.

In any case Clemson is an add-on. The question becomes, is Miami a better option? Is NC State or Virginia Tech a better option? Is NC and VA politics forcing NCSt or VT as tied to the hip? That might determine whether Clemson has to choose between Big12 or ACC.

Absolutely no one is putting Clemson as a shoe-in addon.
Also does anyone believe the SEC is going to 20? if not then Clemson is out for now. I suspect BIG waits to get to 22 only if ND is coming over.
 
Turns out the B1G Presidents were extremely close to adding Cal and Stanford to make it 20 B1G schools but Fox execs didn't have the money to justify it.

www.outkick.com

Big Ten Could Have Been Big Twenty If Timing Wasn't Poor

The Big Ten Conference was reportedly interested in adding both Cal and Stanford to UCLA, USC, Washington and Oregon, but couldn't get additional money for both schools in 2024.
www.outkick.com www.outkick.com
 
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bigmatt718 said:
Turns out the B1G Presidents were extremely close to adding Cal and Stanford to make it 20 B1G schools but Fox execs didn't have the money to justify it.

www.outkick.com

Big Ten Could Have Been Big Twenty If Timing Wasn't Poor

The Big Ten Conference was reportedly interested in adding both Cal and Stanford to UCLA, USC, Washington and Oregon, but couldn't get additional money for both schools in 2024.
www.outkick.com www.outkick.com
Click to expand...
Doubt that is the full story. I believe the Big 10 Presidents would have voted for Cal & Stanford. The problem was Stanford. From what I have heard, they don't play well with others. Lot of it deals with research and collaboration (and the Big 10 is big on that and all parties that have joined the Big 10 have done it more for the Big 10 Academic Alliance). Stanford did not want to share.

Second, I believe FSU will be in the Big 10 and get a full share. What they bring, Florida, planting the flag in the south and much, like SC & UCLA, they can pay for themselves. The Big 10 will make the networks (Fox) pay and Fox will be more than glad to stick it to ESPN. I believe with the appropriate resources, FSU can compete and should be able to add other sports (money solves a lot of problems). Might be hard to get to NOW, but like Penn State they can add and lengthen what they have to meet the Big 10 needs. Benefit them more ways than one.

Third, UNC will go to the SEC. The individuals in charge (non academic types) are enamored by the SEC. Personally a stupid move. UNC football will be second rate at best, basketball will get hosed by Kentucky (good old boys) and their Olympic sports will suffer due to the lack of them in the SEC.

Fourth, the Big 10 should be looking to add 4 schools from the south. Like the west, would give them play mates, a more secured base for the Big 10. Also, makes the Big 10 conference more national. 4 schools in the west, 4 in the south, 3 in the east and the base in the midwest. Personally, I would take FSU, Miami, GT (Atlanta) and some 4th other (Virginia or Clemson).
 
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airspace said:
Doubt that is the full story. I believe the Big 10 Presidents would have voted for Cal & Stanford. The problem was Stanford. From what I have heard, they don't play well with others. Lot of it deals with research and collaboration (and the Big 10 is big on that and all parties that have joined the Big 10 have done it more for the Big 10 Academic Alliance). Stanford did not want to share.

Second, I believe FSU will be in the Big 10 and get a full share. What they bring, Florida, planting the flag in the south and much, like SC & UCLA, they can pay for themselves. The Big 10 will make the networks (Fox) pay and Fox will be more than glad to stick it to ESPN. I believe with the appropriate resources, FSU can compete and should be able to add other sports (money solves a lot of problems). Might be hard to get to NOW, but like Penn State they can add and lengthen what they have to meet the Big 10 needs. Benefit them more ways than one.

Third, UNC will go to the SEC. The individuals in charge (non academic types) are enamored by the SEC. Personally a stupid move. UNC football will be second rate at best, basketball will get hosed by Kentucky (good old boys) and their Olympic sports will suffer due to the lack of them in the SEC.

Fourth, the Big 10 should be looking to add 4 schools from the south. Like the west, would give them play mates, a more secured base for the Big 10. Also, makes the Big 10 conference more national. 4 schools in the west, 4 in the south, 3 in the east and the base in the midwest. Personally, I would take FSU, Miami, GT (Atlanta) and some 4th other (Virginia or Clemson).
Click to expand...
Interesting that Stanford doesn't foster collaboration well with other schools.
 
I guess while FSU might pay for itself, the 2nd team, lets say Miami, might not... they might come at a reduced share, like Washington and Oregon.

When we renegotiate in 2030(forgot the exact year) will Oregon, Washington and Miami slightly reduce our overall payment?

I suspect we do a BIG Friday night game that keeps the money high.

Or a Saturday Night game...
 
mosito said:
I guess while FSU might pay for itself, the 2nd team, lets say Miami, might not... they might come at a reduced share, like Washington and Oregon.

When we renegotiate in 2030(forgot the exact year) will Oregon, Washington and Miami slightly reduce our overall payment?

I suspect we do a BIG Friday night game that keeps the money high.

Or a Saturday Night game...
Click to expand...
Miami?
 
mosito said:
I guess while FSU might pay for itself, the 2nd team, lets say Miami, might not... they might come at a reduced share, like Washington and Oregon.

When we renegotiate in 2030(forgot the exact year) will Oregon, Washington and Miami slightly reduce our overall payment?

I suspect we do a BIG Friday night game that keeps the money high.

Or a Saturday Night game...
Click to expand...
We already do the Saturday Night game. NBC/Peacock has the rights.

Friday night is possible. Reportedly it was discussed with Apple and/or Amazon last go round.
 
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I meant a west coast night.
10PM... West coast home game.
Like the whole reason the PAC12 was going to survive. ESPN used to run Pac12 games at 10PM

.........


When I said Miami, it could be anyone not UNC or ND as a partner to FSU that 2nd team. Wouldn't get a full share and arguably decreases overall payout in the future
 
mosito said:
I meant a west coast night.
10PM... West coast home game.
Like the whole reason the PAC12 was going to survive. ESPN used to run Pac12 games at 10PM

.........


When I said Miami, it could be anyone not UNC or ND as a partner to FSU that 2nd team. Wouldn't get a full share and arguably decreases overall payout in the future
Click to expand...
national programming
 
Leonard23 said:
The trend everywhere (NFL, MLB, college) has been to reduce capacity and add more amenities and luxury/premium seating options to improve the overall game day experience and grow revenue: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/coll...eclining-gate-luxury-170425972-120925083.html, and https://www.athleticbusiness.com/fa...r-venues-realizing-the-benefits-of-downsizing. People need a reason to attend rather than stay on their couch watching on their big screen TV. They want bigger, more comfortable seats with chairbacks, social spaces like a party deck or beer garden, premium/quality food options, strong cell/WiFi service, good sound and videoboards. Nebraska is/was planning to cut 15K seats and reduce capacity from 90K to 75K: https://nebraskapublicmedia.org/en/...-to-mid-70000-while-enhancing-fan-experience/. It's happening everywhere, from college to the NFL, MLB

Here's a good article on the Bills new stadium proposal with reduced seating capacity and more amenities, including a standing-room-only party deck for 5K fans to socialize (we should do this too and had something much smaller like this on the west side near the press box): https://buffalonews.com/sports/bill...cle_98cf44be-68f2-11ec-a0d8-ef495b50e812.html. Unfortunately, this article is $ now but wasn't when we discussed this a while back in another thread.

Some other articles:

globalsportmatters.com

How Low MLB Attendance Is a Business Opportunity for Baseball

Baseball executives are making the most of troubling MLB attendance trends by doing more with less at ballparks.
globalsportmatters.com globalsportmatters.com

www.sportstravelmagazine.com

The Incredible Shrinking Venues

The coronavirus pandemic is going to have short- and mid-term impacts on the fan experience at stadiums. An enforced social-distancing policy by its very nature will likely lead to fewer people all…
www.sportstravelmagazine.com www.sportstravelmagazine.com
Click to expand...
More luxury experiences:

 
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