Doubtful as the Big Ten is actually a legitimate conference with a robust TV deal, forward thinking members and adequate leadership
OT: B1G additions
- Thread starter JayDogSmooth
- Start date
The ESPN option that was not extended really threw a wrench into the ACC position.
Even though the ACC has the GOR through 2036, the "damages" are through 2027. Plus as long as the ACC stays over a certain number of teams, it appears ESPN pays out the same amount.
This news might be true.
FSU and definitely others would have had to wait a few years for the ~572Million to dwindle to something manageable. If we are only looking at <250M that will likely get negotiated, FSU is out ASAP with schools like UNC, UVA, Miami, Clemson, VT, NCSt hoping to get picked up by the BIG and SEC. The question becomes does the SEC expand to 18, 20? IF they somehow do not get UNC, do they stand pat at 16? Does the BIG10 expand to 19(hoping for ND)? 20? 22?
IMO, Stanford is really out unless somehow the BIG gets FSU, ND and Miami/UNC and ND requests Stanford as the forth. 3 good brands/markets would offset Stanford. At that point Stanford helps with a potential Saturday night game that gets rotated with the other 4 West Coast teams.
Depending on whether 3-6 teams get picked off the ACC, you might see others look at the Big12 or try to refill. The question is does ESPN somehow renew? Even though the brands are gone, they were getting the ACC on the cheap. Or does the ACC go out to market for new media partners starting in 2028?
Even though the ACC has the GOR through 2036, the "damages" are through 2027. Plus as long as the ACC stays over a certain number of teams, it appears ESPN pays out the same amount.
This news might be true.
FSU and definitely others would have had to wait a few years for the ~572Million to dwindle to something manageable. If we are only looking at <250M that will likely get negotiated, FSU is out ASAP with schools like UNC, UVA, Miami, Clemson, VT, NCSt hoping to get picked up by the BIG and SEC. The question becomes does the SEC expand to 18, 20? IF they somehow do not get UNC, do they stand pat at 16? Does the BIG10 expand to 19(hoping for ND)? 20? 22?
IMO, Stanford is really out unless somehow the BIG gets FSU, ND and Miami/UNC and ND requests Stanford as the forth. 3 good brands/markets would offset Stanford. At that point Stanford helps with a potential Saturday night game that gets rotated with the other 4 West Coast teams.
Depending on whether 3-6 teams get picked off the ACC, you might see others look at the Big12 or try to refill. The question is does ESPN somehow renew? Even though the brands are gone, they were getting the ACC on the cheap. Or does the ACC go out to market for new media partners starting in 2028?
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DIsregarding any contractual stuff.. I think the strategy for getting Notre Dame should be to allow them to keep their TV rights for home games and allow them into the B1G for, say, 67% of the standard B1G Payout.
They would still contribute their road games in the B1G and any B1G playoff (or championship games... yeah, I think the bigger the conference gets the more likely the B1G championship itself becomes a playoff eventually).
The counter-argument to this would be that Notre Dame fan base may be shrinking.. aging out.. even as less people identify as Catholics and Irish Catholics (yes, there will be more Catholics, I think, but more would be futbol fans than football fans). So, maybe, there is reason to insist on all or nothing regarding Notre Dame.. all-in or left out.
They would still contribute their road games in the B1G and any B1G playoff (or championship games... yeah, I think the bigger the conference gets the more likely the B1G championship itself becomes a playoff eventually).
The counter-argument to this would be that Notre Dame fan base may be shrinking.. aging out.. even as less people identify as Catholics and Irish Catholics (yes, there will be more Catholics, I think, but more would be futbol fans than football fans). So, maybe, there is reason to insist on all or nothing regarding Notre Dame.. all-in or left out.
Why doesn't Pat know the deal figures and how does he put together the athletic department's budget when he doesn't know the revenue?
The 2023-2024 athletic department budget shows "auxiliary revenue," the budget line item including media deal revenue, growing 5.8%. The same athletic department budget features a 13.1% increase in student fee revenue. Why are Rutgers students and their families being hit up for 13.1% in additional fees when the B1G media $$ is starting to flow. Pat has some explaining to do.
Is there recency bias in this love for Clemson?
And the NCAA is almost as corrupt as the DOJ.
There might be from some fan perspective.
Clemson seems to be Big12 bound or remain in the ACC.
From what i can see, Clemson gets into the Power 2 if somehow SEC decides to go for 4 in the NC and VA schools, ND remains stubborn and Clemson comes in as a 2nd to FSU. But most Expansion articles and youtubers/message boards interpreting them or having "sources" seem to believe that Miami would be in front of Clemson.
If SEC only wants 2, there is probably no scenario where the Big10 takes 4 without ND. In this scenario Clemson is SOL.
Having been to Clemson, it's hard for me to imagine them in the B12
Maybe it's recency bias, but I have a hard time seeing it
Please explain. What does having been to Clemson mean regards to a fit in conference
How serious they take their football
The commitment of their boosters
Stadium size and all-around surroundings (town, tailgating, etc.)
This is going back a few years but I thought Nebraska delivered better numbers in St Louis than Missouri did at the time, and that's why Missouri was never really a focus for the BIG. But maybe I'm not remembering correctly.
You say a lot of highly opinionated poorly researched things but this might be your worst take. Boone Pickens had been dead for 3 years and he just gave another 120 million.
Missouri was NEVER a consideration as I said at the time. Media, apres l'occurence, validated this. BIG needed one more for the champ game payout and Alvarez had a hard on for them and Delaney agreed as the name was an easy pitch with their history. They haven't really provided the eyeballs and dma that would be required today. We all grew up with the Nebraska brand but it's dead today to the current crop of kids
I would disagree having lived in B12 country for a bit. IMHO, they are more rabid and care more than a majority of the BIG teams fans. in the SEC, it's practically a religion, BIG country it's a passion, but in BIG12 land, it's far more than a passion and akin to an identity
I've worked in sports for 20 + years and devote a lot of my free time towards it; call me a lot of things, but uninformed wouldn't be one of them.
I've lauded OSU and Pickens multiple times on this board. I've also said it'd be great if we could land someone like him here.
Or Jimmy Rane. Al Dunpap. Ben Hill Griffin. Simon Skodt. Phil Knight
Need I go on?
Pokes are one example in a shit conference of a school devoted to FB, on somewhat relative terms as the B10 and SEC.
The rest of the conference, football wise, can't hold a candle to the Big 2 conferences.
BYU is respectable. TCU had a nice run last year. Baylor was good under RG3. Tech under Leach. KU redoing their stadium. UCF is up and coming. Cougar High was legit under Andre Ware. WVU was last relevant under Rich Rod. ISU fans were fun to party with at the 2011 Pinstripe Bowl.
There's a reason any school with championship aspirations wants no part of that league. The commitment isn't the same, nor are the student bodies, alumni, levels of giving, dedication to football, and most importantly... money.
To even remotely compare it to the B10 or SEC is (and I'm putting it nicely), about as misinformed, asinine and flat out dead wrong as it gets.
Texas yes
Oklahoma yes
Pokes yes
Who else though?
Horns and Boomer are gone
Pokes are on an island, and seem destined for B12 for eternity
BS. You do this all the time, you express your opinion as fact. You throw out BIG or SEC and make it like it's a blanket reality. All BIG and SEC teams are not created equally. Wanting to get into one of those conferences is based on TV revenue. Period. To say the schools, students, or fans aren't invested is stupid. You can talk all about how team x hasn't been relevant since........
Let us not forget that your beloved Florida State was in that same category not to long ago. They have won more games in the last two years than they did last 4 combined.
I bet when it comes to % capacity of stadiums the BIG12 does pretty well.
Facts and revenue go hand in hand
Why do you think the B1G and SEC have much larger $ deals then the B12
Alumni, historical and curent success, ratings, merch, brand, boosters and stadium capacity also play a large role
Again, it’s not even remotely close in that regard
Congrats - you took a 4 year period out of 30 in the ACC to quantify FSUs success
Care to mention the other 25 years?
15 conference championships
6 title game appearances
3 nattys
3 heismans
~ 10 year home unbeaten streak
14 straight top 5 finishes (half were Indy)
Numerous all Americans
Top 5 coach of all time (humble rank)
We carried the league for the majority of yhd time we were there. And that’s just in football, as the other sports have been kicking ass & winning nattys along the way
I lived in the show me state and I traveled extensively in B12 region and I'm telling you that you are wrong on this one. I'd put B12 above BIG each and every time. you want to have some fun, try explaining to ksu fans who root for ku in bball why they are retarded lolololol
and they have memories like elephants!
I’m not doubting their passion
Worked with a couple of B12 grads and they love their schools
Almost cult status
But by the metrics I mentioned before, they don’t compare to the Big 2
Acecdotally, the ISU fans at the pinstripe bowl were insane (in a good way)
I was thinking to myself these guys dwarf me in fandom, and I’d consider myself pretty decent
Issue is in comparison to big 2, they’re on a much smaller scale fan bas wise
you are all over the place. So you think the enrollment matters now? size of the school has nothing to do with the fandom of the students
I just gave you about 10 different metrics of what matters
Yes, although it’s not the only thing,, enrollment certainly plays a part because that leads to more alumni, which leads to increased giving, money for boosters, generations of fans, boosters, etc.
There’s a reason, Duke and Baylor have smaller basketball areas, there’s also a reason that Michigan and Ohio State have larger football stadiums (spoiler alert, student body plays a part in that)
At the end of the day, it does not matter what either of us say, what matters or what the networks say
And, judging by the money discrepancy between the Big Ten and SEC, and the rest of the conferences (B12), that number speaks for itself
you are mincing words. You said the Big12 doesn't take football seriously. That is patently false. nobody is arguing that the SEC and B1G aren't the top two but to just continually write everyone off as you do is stupid. There are a number of schools in both the BIG12 and ACC who take sports more seriously than members of the "P2"
it is not debatable
What is your infatuation with the B12?
You know who also takes football seriously...some current members of the ACC. Besides the two obvious schools..
NC State
Virginia Tech
Miami (although not at the level they should thanks to Donna & Nevin)
Yet they're all clamoring to leave the league ASAP
Take the top FB schools from each league (in no particular order)
B1G
Mich
Buckeye
Nitts
USC
Sconnie
Iowa
Washington
Oregon
SEC
Bama
Barn
Vols
Gates
Dawgs
Aggie
Horns
Boomer
B12
Pokes
BYU
Cougs
Tech
Baylor
Frogs
It isn't even a comparasion
Same if you took the bottom feeders from each league - you'd get similar results
I have zero infatuation with the Big12. I have issue with stating they don't care about sports
metrics could be skewed by the pop sample but as a percentage of pop and monies spent by individual, I'd bet heavily on the B12 people. Cult like is right!
I love it all, makes the games and everything associated with it that much more fun.
I think if you look at the BIG, the very nature of the schools being in economic centers with other sports and distractions validates that the B12, with less of those, would garner more as a percent of pop.
As I recall Missouri was VERY vocal that they wanted the B1G invitation. Actually lobbying for it in the media.
IMO the power-brokers in the B1G dont like that sort of thing. They prefer to work behind the scenes and not share anything with the media until the deal is complete. Pretty much all B1G expansion has been done this way. I think Missouri, with that strategy, really hurt their case with B1G AD's and Presidents, not to mention Jim Delany.
Now Delany is no longer there, but I think the B1G AD's and presidents still don't like that sort of public lobbying, which is why I have great doubts about all the FSU to the B1G talk. If FSU were really in contact with the B1G about joining, they would have been instructed by the B1G to keep it quiet. Since there has been so much talk about it is the very thing the tells the tale that it is not so.
Texas and OU jumped at the first chance they got
Each and every school in that league would leave in a minute if invited
Who in the current B12 cares at the level of the B10 or SEC?
BYU, WVU, Tech and Okie State are the ones that come to mind - and at best, they'd be middle of the pack in the B1G, and bottom feeders "giving a shit" wise in the SEC
BYU, WVU, Tech and OSU are the only ones who remotely are interested, vis a vis the B1G and SEC.
Like I just mentioned, those 4 at best would be middle of pack in B1G, and bottom tier "GAF" wise in the SEC
FSU has never publicly mentioned the B1G
They've only publicly (and accurately) smartly lobbied against the ACC, as the need to get out of there has never been greater
Almost every school in that conference is as committed or more committed to at least the B1G
I can't change your mind but I lived in B12 land and knew everyone as an alum of one of those conference schools and in my opinion, they care far more than you think and certainly more than most of the B10
Committed to what?
Football... no shot
Staying in the league... no shot if given the choice to move
As already mentioned, those 4 are the biggest fb powers in the conference, and none have any chance of winning anything consistently (can be a one-off like TCU and strike lighting in a bottle) as long as they're in the B12
BYU is a national brand, 2nd in their own state (similar to FSU) - but not at their level nationally
Tech - at best, 3rd in TX
WVU - Owns West Virginia (which is like saying Rutgers owns Piscataway)
OSU - 2nd fiddle to Boomer
The rest of the league is just not relevant in college FB
Never have been
Never will be
Not doubting they care
We both agree it's near cult status for certain schools
By and large though, the league does not care that much about FB IMO
Not in comparison to the B1G, and certainly not to the SEC
Again, you need to decide on an argument and stick to it. Winning, or the possibility to win a Natty has NOTHING to do with being committed to football. Using your new metric only OSU, Michigan and PSU are commited to football in the Big ten. No other team has a shot to win a NC.
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Yes it does
It's all about money
Period
If those schools were truly committed, the fans would be donating a ton of money
They'd be filling the stadium every Saturday, and expanding to larger capacities
They'd have a robust Booster program, NIL collective (s), and killer recruiting
None do.
Not one.
I commend WVU. But they're not truly committed to winning
I like Okie State - but they're just not committed enough to winning
Maybe a segment of their fan bases are. Pickens clearly was. The guy who's name is on the field at UH's new stadium likely is. and that's all nice and dandy
But on a whole, money talks
A small part of their fan bases might be passionate...but not nearly enough
I'm a fan of a school who's legit committed
That school backs it up by writing checks
I write checks b/c I want to see wins
Passion, commitment and Money go hand in hand
To suggest otherwise is foolish
I agree. Admittedly it was a long time ago but when I lived out there people were crazy over the BIG12. Oops, I meant the BIG8. I told you it was a long time ago😅
