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OT: Coming to a beach near you in NJ and NY

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Thanks, and always open to new info - just not expecting it. The thing that gets me about all of this is that whales have been dying in high numbers in this region for 7+ years (and there was another similar peak in deaths about 30 years ago) and we never heard boo from any of the people holding the pitchforks currently. One would have thought that if they cared so much about whales, they would've been protesting commercial shipping and fishing activities for years, which are absolutely proven to be the major source of whale deaths/beachings, due to collisions and entanglements.

But no, it's only since an alternative energy source was proposed that might block their ocean views. Having said that, though, as I've said to Newell in this thread, there are certainly economic/tax break arguments (especially for a foreign company doing the project) to be made against the project, but very few are focused on that.
I'm not sure what Shellenberger's angle is here. He strikes me as a guy who sincerely believes in what he is saying, and not a guy who is just jumping the whale (snark/shark!) here. But I could be misreading him. It is useful to verify most sources nowadays, especially when someone does not have a background, either education and/or experience, in a cause they are opining about.
 
Because nobody's going to allow a million dollar house to go Section 8. Would you vote for a state budget that put low income people in million dollar homes at taxpayer expense?

And it's not "a mile", it's a quarter of a mile - I very clearly stated that. And it's the same school district.

You're f*ckin stupid. Go away.
If you care about the poor then why don't you move to their neighborhood and spread the wealth? Why do your kids go to a different school? Sounds like racism.
 
Update - the Marine Mammal Stranding Center has determined that the likely cause of death of the most recent dead whale to wash ashore in NJ this past weekend (Long Branch) is a ship strike, which is no surprise, as that's the cause of most unexpected whale deaths, as many of us have posted. Just waiting to see people protesting commercial shipping and fishing activities, which are the source of most whale deaths, instead of - wait for it - tilting at windmills, lol.

https://www.facebook.com/njmarinemammal/posts/pfbid0RTx9oqqQccUBDenveCPfwuBDpF3zF4GNDzm3n6agiDxijUkaHPz7WpYEF6ff7GXAl
 
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The good areas dont have any low cost housing. The towns with low cost housing turn into ghettos.


Affluent dems tend to avoid the policies they promote for the masses. You wont find low income housing or diversity in their neighborhoods or local schools.
Do you just like to post dumb, wrong stuff to get a reaction? NJ has numerous programs (and requirements) for low income housing and is one of the most diverse states in the country. Yes, there are some rough spots in our inner cities, but there are also countless towns that have achieved high diversity scores because they work at it, as they know diversity is actually a plus for any town. I happen to live in a town like that and love the variety of people and cultures in that town.

https://www.nj.gov/dca/divisions/codes/publications/guide.html
 
It's worth pointing out that construction noise is temporary but structure at sea has long been determined to be beneficial to marine life all throughout the food chain.

If right whales have become highly active in the waters off southern New England, then of course they should be accommodated as much as possible since there are so few of them.

Looking at the Passive Acoustic Cetacean Map, which Hayes references in his letter as a primary data source, a couple of things stand out. First, the most active years are very clearly 2016 & 2017, with 2022 total detections being less than 25% of the totals from five years previous. Interestingly, the total detection numbers correlate almost exactly to the New England stranding numbers, which would lend the impression that "more whales = more strandings".

It also appears, based on the data, that right whales are only active in those waters during the winter months. Detections during warmer months are a fraction of those during the colder months - this is unquestionably due to the fact that baleen whales are, for the most part, cold water animals as their primary food source consists of zooplankton which thrive in cold water. It also provides a convenient window for construction to avoid contact with whales, since building anything in the North Atlantic during the winter is generally a bad idea.

Finally, something of a shout-out: A majority of the detection platforms used to compile this data are of the "glider" type, a device which was developed by Rutgers University marine bio folks (my own niece among them).
Agree on construction noise being temporary, but some of these critics have been saying that the operating noise from the windmills will impact mammalian life, which is extremely unlikely, as we've discussed before. Good points on right whales/activity and RU involvement - a number of RU marine science folks have also been involved in putting together the mammalian impact/risk assessment documents.
 
FWIW, nobody's "ocean views" are getting blocked. Given the proposed location of between 12 and 20 miles off the coast it's possible that on a crystal clear day folks on the beach would be able to vaguely distinguish some fuzzy lines extending to just above the horizon.
Yes, but any impingement is really the core issue for many of these folks, IMO, since until about this year, most of the complaints were about wrecking the view - just look at the headlines from the articles below. The BOEM put together graphics showing what 900 foot high windmills will look like 15-20 miles offshore, as per the graphic below. The horror. But my favorite part is that the pic below shows the sullied view from Stone Harbor, so I'm guessing T will be protesting this in Trenton shortly.

https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/new...-with-100s-of-wind-turbines-revealed/3274895/

https://www.nj.com/news/2021/04/wil...ersey-shore-tourism-the-debate-churns-on.html

UJftGMc.png
 
Do you just like to post dumb, wrong stuff to get a reaction? NJ has numerous programs (and requirements) for low income housing and is one of the most diverse states in the country. Yes, there are some rough spots in our inner cities, but there are also countless towns that have achieved high diversity scores because they work at it, as they know diversity is actually a plus for any town. I happen to live in a town like that and love the variety of people and cultures in that town.

https://www.nj.gov/dca/divisions/codes/publications/guide.html
Diversity destroyed the cities and the public schools.

Can you name one elected democrat in any large city that sends their kids to a non charter public high school?
 
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Update - the Marine Mammal Stranding Center has determined that the likely cause of death of the most recent dead whale to wash ashore in NJ this past weekend (Long Branch) is a ship strike, which is no surprise, as that's the cause of most unexpected whale deaths, as many of us have posted. Just waiting to see people protesting commercial shipping and fishing activities, which are the source of most whale deaths, instead of - wait for it - tilting at windmills, lol.

https://www.facebook.com/njmarinemammal/posts/pfbid0RTx9oqqQccUBDenveCPfwuBDpF3zF4GNDzm3n6agiDxijUkaHPz7WpYEF6ff7GXAl
Glad you are happy about the whales dying of boat strikes instead.....Go windmills!!

You do know other whales can be dragged out to sea by windmill install companies so we do not see as many anymore.
 
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Yes, but any impingement is really the core issue for many of these folks, IMO, since until about this year, most of the complaints were about wrecking the view - just look at the headlines from the articles below. The BOEM put together graphics showing what 900 foot high windmills will look like 15-20 miles offshore, as per the graphic below. The horror. But my favorite part is that the pic below shows the sullied view from Stone Harbor, so I'm guessing T will be protesting this in Trenton shortly.

https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/new...-with-100s-of-wind-turbines-revealed/3274895/

https://www.nj.com/news/2021/04/wil...ersey-shore-tourism-the-debate-churns-on.html

UJftGMc.png
So pretty....
 
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So pretty....

The fisherman and climate change will have destroyed the oceans well before those windmills have a chance.

But if you followed the thread, you would have seen that 4Real already addressed that. Structures are a net positive for marine habitats…this is long established.

Appears caught you mid edit. But I was addressing your stated concern for the fisherman.
 
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Glad you are happy about the whales dying of boat strikes instead.....Go windmills!!

You do know other whales can be dragged out to sea by windmill install companies so we do not see as many anymore.
Who said I was happy about that? In fact I said I've been disappointed there hasn't been a hue and cry about commercial shipping/fishing.

And I have no idea what you're saying about whales being dragged out to sea...
 
Yeah? What’s your solution? Skip the intermediate steps and just give us your final solution.
I'd like to think that the guy meant DEI.. Diversity, Equity and Inclusion and not simply "diversity". Most urban neighborhoods have little "diversity". And what is killing the public schools are the teachers' unions using marxist/socialist tactics. Its not about teaching necessary subjects.. it is about increasing payroll count and pay and gaining/maintaining political power to keep the ball rolling. And the poor teachers who really want to teach.. they have to deal with crap. If the better teachers all haven't left the profession they may pretty soon.. like the police.

The way I see it the left is made up of many, many, many special interest groups, who together can wield political power to achieve something for every one of those special interest groups. And, right now, Black voters and women are their most important groups. Lose either of them.. either of them start fraying and voting their conscience rather than voting for "the team" and they lose political power. So that's why we see all the activism supporting those groups, no matter how crazy their "asks" are. Young people too.. with today's news about going ahead and illegally canceling student debt.

That is what is destroying everything. If maintaining the grip on power is everything.. and it is.. they will say anything and stop at nothing to achieve it.
 
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I'd like to think that the guy meant DEI.. Diversity, Equity and Inclusion and not simply "diversity". Most urban neighborhoods have little "diversity". And what is killing the public schools are the teachers' unions using marxist/socialist tactics. Its not about teaching necessary subjects.. it is about increasing payroll count and pay and gaining/maintaining political power to keep the ball rolling. And the poor teachers who really want to teach.. they have to deal with crap. If the better teachers all haven't left the profession they may pretty soon.. like the police.

The way I see it the left is made up of many, many, many special interest groups, who together can wield political power to achieve something for every one of those special interest groups. And, right now, Black voters and women are their most important groups. Lose either of them.. either of them start fraying and voting their conscience rather than voting for "the team" and they lose political power. So that's why we see all the activism supporting those groups, no matter how crazy their "asks" are. Young people too.. with today's news about going ahead and illegally canceling student debt.

That is what is destroying everything. If maintaining the grip on power is everything.. and it is.. they will say anything and stop at nothing to achieve it.
yup

hey, the cult of the left is fascist, eery similarities
 
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The guy made a blatantly racist post.

How you respond is not about anybody's political viewpoints, not his, not yours, not anybody's. It's 100% about you, as an individual. That's how we're judged, as individuals.

Rep or Dem, Lib or Con, right or left: either you support what he said (which is racist), or you don't (which is being a decent human being).

Up to you. Be who you want. But nobody's fooling anybody.
 
The guy made a blatantly racist post.

How you respond is not about anybody's political viewpoints, not his, not yours, not anybody's. It's 100% about you, as an individual. That's how we're judged, as individuals.

Rep or Dem, Lib or Con, right or left: either you support what he said (which is racist), or you don't (which is being a decent human being).

Up to you. Be who you want. But nobody's fooling anybody.
when is your next antifa meeting
 
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That is what is destroying everything. If maintaining the grip on power is everything.. and it is.. they will say anything and stop at nothing to achieve it.
I have trouble believing you typed those last 2 sentences without detecting their overwhelming irony when measured up to current events.

Also, teacher about to leave the profession here after 34 years. I can assure you the political forces that are making my daily professional experience less rewarding each year (and resulting in fewer college kids choosing to become teachers) are coming from the right side of the spectrum.
 
The good areas dont have any low cost housing. The towns with low cost housing turn into ghettos.


Affluent dems tend to avoid the policies they promote for the masses. You wont find low income housing or diversity in their neighborhoods or local schools.

LOL

Jersey City
81% for Biden
625k average home price

Keansburg
53% Trump
368k average home price
 
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I have trouble believing you typed those last 2 sentences without detecting their overwhelming irony when measured up to current events.

Also, teacher about to leave the profession here after 34 years. I can assure you the political forces that are making my daily professional experience less rewarding each year (and resulting in fewer college kids choosing to become teachers) are coming from the right side of the spectrum.
LOLz
 
The problem is the affluent dems want to expand the failed welfare model they use in Camden and they complain about the successful model used in Princeton.


They way to deal with affluent Dems is to ram the policies they support down their own throats. Raise THEIR taxes, build low income housing in THEIR neighborhoods, desegregate their kids schools and bus illegals to their neighborhoods. At that point they see the light and shift to the right.

Princeton
70% for Biden

Lakewood
82% for Trump

You're really terrible at this
 
when is your next antifa meeting

When is Sidney deploying the kraken?

When is Durham locking everyone up?

When is Rudy proving voter fraud?

When are the Uranium One indictments?

I guess whenever you've gone a day not being an indictment of the human race, so...never?
 
Thanks, and always open to new info - just not expecting it. The thing that gets me about all of this is that whales have been dying in high numbers in this region for 7+ years (and there was another similar peak in deaths about 30 years ago) and we never heard boo from any of the people holding the pitchforks currently. One would have thought that if they cared so much about whales, they would've been protesting commercial shipping and fishing activities for years, which are absolutely proven to be the major source of whale deaths/beachings, due to collisions and entanglements.

But no, it's only since an alternative energy source was proposed that might block their ocean views. Having said that, though, as I've said to Newell in this thread, there are certainly economic/tax break arguments (especially for a foreign company doing the project) to be made against the project, but very few are focused on that.

my objections have always been the cost and the unknown impacts 900+ windmills will have on the environment. I am not concerned about the visual aspect of them all that much.
 
I have trouble believing you typed those last 2 sentences without detecting their overwhelming irony when measured up to current events.

Also, teacher about to leave the profession here after 34 years. I can assure you the political forces that are making my daily professional experience less rewarding each year (and resulting in fewer college kids choosing to become teachers) are coming from the right side of the spectrum.

How Teachers’ Unions Handcuff Schools (from 1997)

Yeah.. it is the Right demanding teachers produce measurable results.. so horrid of them.



 
Eliminate public housing, low income housing and busing.
Wow. I'm in awe of your genius. You just increased the number of homeless by orders of magnitude. Great work!

You should probably run for office. Your campaign slogan can be "Voltz, helping everyone by making them all homeless and immobile".
 
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So when someone points out a racist statement, that makes them antifa? Even you aren't that stupid, Bac.

Wanna try again but with less stupid this time?
C'mon.. yeah.. as worded is sounded racist and certainly, we have seen some real racist remarks on this board.. iirc, Waretown was one such poster that I instantly recall doing so. So if I saw that handle post the comment to which you replied I would be 100% behind you identifying it as racist.

But if you think about the use of the word "diversity" in the remark in this thread, it does not quite make sense. He talked about the crisis in schools and the crisis in cities NOW. Anyway, I assume he means NOW.

WAIT... just reviewed many of the previous posts and while they looked pretty bad.. but consider this one... about how someone had a big house in a diverse community.. and did not name the community..

Any poor families buying those big houses? Any low income projects?

Sounds like a neighborhood filled with "diverse" people all from the same income bracket who all work. In other words not much diversity. If you support low income housing then shouldn't you support it in YOUR own neighborhood too?

The poor people are a mile up the road on the other side of the tracks and a different school district so they cant destroy your neighborhood. Affluent liberals love diversity from afar.

This one sheds some light on what he means by diversity. People can say those against teh old Mount Laurel Decision are racist, and some opponents might very well be motivated by racism, but it is much broader than that.

It is about communities making rules for their towns designed to support a suburban-style environment. Lot sizes and zoning laws and so on. These rules developed over decades and, when successful, resulted in desirable communities with increasing home values and good schools and so on. And no suck zoning law could be race-based.

And then someone comes from the outside and tells them they are doing it all wrong. That they need high-density low-income housing... for "diversity".

Alpine NJ is one of the highest-income communities in New Jersey and is diverse. The White population there is only 55% (about 63% of New Jersey is white). Now, I ask you, does anyone, regardless of race, in Alpine want a low-income housing project to be built near their homes? If you are a black person who bought a mansion in Alpine, do you want that?

And then you have this trend of leftists insisting that all single-family housing is racist. And that "More than 50 years after passage of the Fair Housing Act, it’s time to sue the suburbs."

Bottom line: It is not necessarily racist to be against such introduction of high-density low-income housing in your communities. In many ways, it is just common sense. It is probably better to look at why there are low-income people at all. Are schools failing them? Why do they feel the need to have access to good schools in safe neighborhoods?

How about making their schools good and their neighborhoods safe? And the use of "their" is not race-based. "Their" means low-income people that want to move to the safe communities with good schools.
 
C'mon.. yeah.. as worded is sounded racist and certainly, we have seen some real racist remarks on this board.. iirc, Waretown was one such poster that I instantly recall doing so. So if I saw that handle post the comment to which you replied I would be 100% behind you identifying it as racist.

But if you think about the use of the word "diversity" in the remark in this thread, it does not quite make sense. He talked about the crisis in schools and the crisis in cities NOW. Anyway, I assume he means NOW.

WAIT... just reviewed many of the previous posts and while they looked pretty bad.. but consider this one... about how someone had a big house in a diverse community.. and did not name the community..



This one sheds some light on what he means by diversity. People can say those against teh old Mount Laurel Decision are racist, and some opponents might very well be motivated by racism, but it is much broader than that.

It is about communities making rules for their towns designed to support a suburban-style environment. Lot sizes and zoning laws and so on. These rules developed over decades and, when successful, resulted in desirable communities with increasing home values and good schools and so on. And no suck zoning law could be race-based.

And then someone comes from the outside and tells them they are doing it all wrong. That they need high-density low-income housing... for "diversity".

Alpine NJ is one of the highest-income communities in New Jersey and is diverse. The White population there is only 55% (about 63% of New Jersey is white). Now, I ask you, does anyone, regardless of race, in Alpine want a low-income housing project to be built near their homes? If you are a black person who bought a mansion in Alpine, do you want that?

And then you have this trend of leftists insisting that all single-family housing is racist. And that "More than 50 years after passage of the Fair Housing Act, it’s time to sue the suburbs."

Bottom line: It is not necessarily racist to be against such introduction of high-density low-income housing in your communities. In many ways, it is just common sense. It is probably better to look at why there are low-income people at all. Are schools failing them? Why do they feel the need to have access to good schools in safe neighborhoods?

How about making their schools good and their neighborhoods safe? And the use of "their" is not race-based. "Their" means low-income people that want to move to the safe communities with good schools.
You're making nuanced points which is a perfectly fine thing to do and is not racist in any way. I've never said otherwise. Like you, I can talk about sensitive topics because I'm careful to be nuanced about what I write (that is, if I'm posting seriously).

Having said that, Voltz wasn't being nuanced. He wrote a simple sentence that stated his opposition to diversity which is a racist statement, by definition. He's not even denying it.

In order to have any kind of reasonable conversation about social issues, reasonable people with differing views take care to speak moderately and with nuance. And in order for any conversation to remain reasonable, people on all sides of any issue must confront and reject extremists (racism is extremism).

Otherwise, by definition, the conversation is made pointless, an exchange of extremist babble. Wholly unproductive. Like this thread has become.
 
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