OT: Coming to a beach near you in NJ and NY
- Thread starter newell138
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Did you read what I said? "after the sounds from construction are ruining their ability to navigate". Watch the video if you care or are interested. Plenty of great points.
Sorry, I mis-typed. Why would the sound of construction "ruin their ability to navigate"?
If you hear a loud noise, or even a series of them, do you get lost? Forget where you are?
There is a theory out there that the sounds disrupt their ability to navigate which in turn could result in a ship strike. I’m no marine biologist but it’s plausible
Oh for f*ck's sake...
I know there's a "theory" out there. I'm asking the people here, who are regurgitating that "theory" (it's not a theory) to tell us their understanding of it.
So again. One more time. With feeling.
WHY would the sound of construction cause an inability to navigate?
Did you hear about this? From Yesterday's Coast Star Newspaper:
Sea Girt officials push back
on offshore wind-farm cables
Cables from wind turbines off Atlantic County will landfall
at Sea Girt National Guard Training Center
SEA GIRT — Mayor Don
Fetzer, during the borough
council meeting on Aug.
9, expressed the borough’s
dissent with Atlantic Shores
Oshore Wind and its proposed
route for cables to run
from the wind turbines 10
miles o the coast of Atlantic
County to landfall at the National
Guard Training Center
in the borough.
Mayor Fetzer, who participated
in a Zoom meeting
with Atlantic Shores
last week, said the borough
is “not in favor of the route
they selected” and expressed
his concerns, asking the
company to reconsider the
route.
Borough Administrator
James Gant, who also attended
the meeting, said “The
proposed route disproportionately
aects Sea Girt residents
along Sea Girt Avenue
as it runs much of the length
of Sea Girt Avenue.”
The mayor further expressed
that the borough’s
concern has “nothing to do
with environment” and is
focused only on the route of
the cables coming to shore.
In the video, whales are so disoriented that there's proof mothers leave the young in a panic, where the young starve to death. Had scientist listen as they drop a mic under water and listen to sonar and construction sounds way higher than government agency guidelines. Watch the video, it's 8 minutes, it might open the mind. I'm done giving you the cliff notes.
That's a good question, but as always, the devil is in the details, which appear to be lacking (at least from the story). And while not impacting Sea Girt, how the heck are they going to link this up tot he Larrabee Substtation in Howell, which is on Randoph Road in Howell (map link below)? Maybe there is a detailed map, but I hate the fuzzy nature of the info given in the story. Also, hate to be a NIMBY, but they better not F up "my" bike path, the Edgar Felix Bike Path (Maybe that makes me a NIMBP?).
According to info from Atlantic Shores and the Bureau of Ocean Energy Management (BOEM):
At the landfall point in Sea
Girt, “horizontal directional
drilling [HDD] will be employed
to minimize impacts
to the intertidal and nearshore
habitats and ensure
stable burial of the cables,”
according to the BOEM, and
“onshore interconnection cables
will travel underground
primarily along existing roadways,
utility rights-of-way,
and/or along bike paths” to
the Larrabee Substation in
Howell Township.
Google Maps
Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
That's a good question, but as always, the devil is in the details, which appear to be lacking (at least from the story). And while not impacting Sea Girt, how the heck are they going to link this up tot he Larrabee Substtation in Howell, which is on Randoph Road in Howell (map link below)? Maybe there is a detailed map, but I hate the fuzzy nature of the info given in the story. Also, hate to be a NIMBY, but they better not F up "my" bike path, the Edgar Felix Bike Path (Maybe that makes me a NIMBP?).
According to info from Atlantic Shores and the Bureau of Ocean Energy Management (BOEM):
At the landfall point in Sea
Girt, “horizontal directional
drilling [HDD] will be employed
to minimize impacts
to the intertidal and nearshore
habitats and ensure
stable burial of the cables,”
according to the BOEM, and
“onshore interconnection cables
will travel underground
primarily along existing roadways,
utility rights-of-way,
and/or along bike paths” to
the Larrabee Substation in
Howell Township.
Google Maps
Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.www.google.com
So it sounds like they're going to lay some cable.
Verizon covered most of the state with fiber via precisely the same process. Nobody noticed, much less bitched about it.
Thought I saw that being strung between telephone poles at least in Belmar. Maybe a mixture of underground and above ground?
BTW- I have not major objections to any of the above, just reporting what is happening on the ground in South Monmouth. You are far west of the disruption. 😂
There might be some places where they can't put them underground, but it's 100% not the preferred option to string them on poles.
Fiber optic cable, unlike copper, does NOT react well to environmental variables. You simply don't want to put it where it can be impacted by temperature or motion.
You, sir, are talking to a ceramic engineer, with extensive experience in glass fibers, particularly optical fiber strands. Me and Mrs. Shift worked in a factory in NC after earning our RU degrees, where she was an engineer and factory supervisor where the glass blanks were made, and I worked in the department that drew the glass blanks into coated optical fiber waveguides. Was a great job in a great location. IMO, thought that optical fiber when properly cabled was more durable to the environment than copper (which tends to corrode). The problem with optical fiber is that while it is extremely strong, the slightest nick or scratch on the glass fiber (which is sheathed in a double polymer coating and a cable) will cause the fiber to fail and break. If you want more info, I can provide Weibull plots of the strength of glass fibers. Will need to know if that is single mode or multimode fiber.
Again - there may be places where exceptions apply but the exception does not nullify the rule.
If you have to put fiber on poles, then service will be degraded.
Also, there's a difference between end run and trunk. I guarantee you the trunk cables are underground. They're much too large to hang on a pole.
100% of Verizon's fiber, around here, is underground.
Aerial fiber is subject to interruptive forces that underground fiber is not.
Wherever possible, Verizon buries fiber optic cables. The lab experience with glass fiber is great, but I work with network providers every single day. We have the "up or down" conversation about every single data center in our customer base.
Everybody is for nuclear reactors but it has take about 5-7 years to built the plant. What are we suppose to do for the next couple of years to built all those nuclear reactors? In addition what about the radioactive water?
www.pbs.org
Plan to discharge water into Hudson River from closed Indian Point nuclear plant sparks uproar
Supporters of the plan say the releases are no different than those made when Indian Point was producing power and that the concentration of tritium has been far below federal standards.
www.pbs.org
Use what we have now…fossil, wind, solar, hydro.Everybody is for nuclear reactors but it has take about 5-7 years to built the plant. What are we suppose to do for the next couple of years to built all those nuclear reactors? In addition what about the radioactive water?
Plan to discharge water into Hudson River from closed Indian Point nuclear plant sparks uproar
Supporters of the plan say the releases are no different than those made when Indian Point was producing power and that the concentration of tritium has been far below federal standards.
Which is what many of us have been saying all along.
Don’t shut off the faucet until you can get your water elsewhere.
It’s the “thickest” thing on the pole now.
Also pretty safe for my folks to deal with…the closer to the ground the line is the less dangerous for us.
I misread the aerial part, and had it flipped from what you said. Yes, stretching will cause problems with optical fiber, which is has outer cladding that has refractive index difference with the core that prevents the light from escaping outside the fiber. However, if the fiber is bent to stretched too much, this interrupts transmission of light through the core. I feel like I am reviewing my notes from Fiber Optic Engineering with Dr. Sigel at Rutgers. Fiber optic cables which contain multiple "strands" of fibers include strands of material which used to (and may still) include kevlar) to help mitigate stress on the cables. I figure you know a lot of this stuff, but just blathering away to keep this thread on topic.
Unfortunately you can't completely destress the cable because it's still gonna have windage. If it's tightrope-taught to the poles, then the poles is what's gon' give. :)
Underground fiber is one of those boxes you have to check for certain levels of data center resiliency.
Speaking of which - hey @e5fdny, have you ever been up to PSAC2?
Public Service Answering Center 2. It's in the Bronx. 911 call takers and PD/FD/EMS dispatch, along with all the comms and systems. PSAC1 is at MetroTech, PSAC2 was built as part of the post-9/11 overhaul of the 911 system that the city ultimately spent about $3 billion on.
I worked on the program to build out the technical infrastructure in the PSAC2 building back in '08 when I was still with HP. I circled back to it nearly 10 years later (yep, it took that long) to finish it off.
If you get a chance, check out the building. I won't detail it, but on my first trip up there it was described to me by the NYPD program manager as "zombie proof". She wasn't wrong.
Ooooh, I feel soooo insulted. 🤣
Once upon a time…
Whales: Damn it, ships keep killing us.
Mindless Sheep: 🥱
Whale Lovers: But the whales?
Whales: Damn it, oil spills keep killing us.
Mindless Sheep: 🥱
Whale Lovers: But the whales?
Big Oil: Yo, politicians and media we own, shut these commie whale lovers up.
Politicians and Media: Blah blah, whales are just fine, blah.
Mindless Sheep: Shut up you commie whale lovers. Whales suck. Drill baby drill.
Wind Energy Company: We’re putting in wind turbines. Gonna hurt big oil a little, sorry.
Big Oil: Yo, politicians and media we own, spread fake “theory” on wind and whales for us.
Politicians and Media: Blah blah, wind, whales, blah.
Mindless Sheep: Whales are the best! Stop wind power!
Whale Lovers: Wait wut? 🤨
Pompous Experts: Uh, there’s no actual evidence about wind power and whales.
Mindless Sheep: Shut up you commie whale hating pompous experts. Drill baby drill.
Mildone: Space Aliens. 🤣
Angry Mindless Sheep: Shut up you fact loving pompous expert.
Mildone: 🤣
The end.
Well, first off, there isn't any construction yet (only sonar mapping efforts to figure out where to site the windmill bases), so right away you look foolish. Then, it's bad enough that the video interview you linked starts off with the host talking about the whale that recently washed up in Long Branch and mentioning how it's the 60th whale death this year on the Atlantic Coast, implying it's due to windmill activities, when it was just determined that this whale was killed by a boat strike.
These unusually high levels of whale deaths are certainly a tragedy, but also in line with the unusually high number of whale deaths during the last 7-8 years, as I posted earlier in the thread (below) - and most of those years preceded any windmill sound mapping, which didn't start until about a year ago, so it's clearly nuts to blame windmill work for the last 7 years of elevated whale deaths.
You also said the "video" that is referred to in the interview you linked "proves" that whales "are so disoriented that there's proof mothers leave the young in a panic, where the young starve to death," and yet that video hasn't even been released yet, so how do you know that? Are you simply taking some non-scientist's word for it (Shellenberger has a BA degree from the Peace and Global Studies program at Earlham College and an MA in anthropology)?
Speaking of which, Shellenberger even has the gall to say that they're not going to share their data with regulatory authorities in the US because they've been corrupted (and will only give his info to legislative investigators) - that's completely at odds with how science is done - if they have some relevant info and data, they should publish it in peer reviewed scientific journals. But I wouldn't count on any of that, since I'm pretty sure they don't have data that would hold up to scrutiny.
Lastly, I don't think executing a takedown of your illogical error-filled ramblings is "pompous" - I simply consider it a public service.
Same here - it's also amazing how people keep bringing up all the same tired, inaccurate arguments when the plain truth is before them, i.e., whales have been dying for decades close to the very busy US east coast (especially from the Chesapeake to Cape Cod), almost completely due to boat impacts and/or entanglements - and this goes for right whales, too. There weren't even any windmill studies until a few years ago and the peak of the current mortality event was before that in 2017. Pretty sure I posted this earlier in the thread, but in case not, here are the facts on right whales from NOAA's Marine Mammal Commission, and below that is an excellent graphic on whale deaths since 2007.
https://www.mmc.gov/wp-content/uplo...rge-Whales-along-the-East-Coast-2.21.2023.pdf
Human-caused mortality and serious injury, particularly entanglements and vessel strikes, is the greatest threat to recovery of North Atlantic Right Whales (Moore 2023). Today, there are fewer than 350 North Atlantic right whales in existence, with fewer than 95 mature females in the population. An Unusual Mortality Event was declared for North Atlantic right whales in 2017, and currently includes 97 individuals (36 dead, 22 seriously injured, and 39 sub-lethally injured or ill).
Between 2003 and 2018, in cases where a cause of death could be determined, every juvenile and adult right whale death was attributable to human activities (Sharp et al. 2019). After the first year of life, right whales do not live long enough to die of natural causes. In addition, sub-lethal effects of ship strikes and entanglement can impair the growth and reproduction of right whales and further impair their recovery (Moore 2023).
Your video is contrived uselessness.
"Whales are so disoriented that there's proof mothers leave the young in a panic"?
So the dead whales washing up on the beaches must be starved pups then, right?
Nope. They're adults.
And there's no construction going on that's associated with windmills. None.
So what's your video guy talking about?
And you said, previously, that the noise was interrupting their ability to navigate (but never offered how or why). What happened to that?
Also, anyone who thinks that audio clip they said was "piledriving" has never listened to a passive sonar, before. Especially since not a single pile has been driven on the Wind1 project.
So tell me... where was all this angst, all the hew and cry, when the oil companies were building oil and gas rigs all over the Gulf of Mexico, which is an area that is much more environmentally sensitive that the North Atlantic?
****in' hypocrites.
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Shhhh… if you keep saying that word, the newfound Greenpeace-soldier wanna-be’s in this thread are gonna realize they‘re becoming pro-regulation tree-hugging environmentalists. Next thing you know, they’re gonna start saying we should raise taxes on the wealthy.
I’m worried their tiny heads will explode when they realize all the implications.
All those years of denouncing liberals just to wake up one day and realize they’ve become that which they despise most. The irony is so thick and luscious and wondrous.
Might be time to buy stock in Patchouli oil manufacturers.
We can talk about this and they won’t understand what we’re saying as long as we keep using pompous expert speak. We just need to be careful not to slip into humble ignorance speak or they‘ll start paying attention.
We can talk about this and they won’t understand what we’re saying as long as we keep using pompous expert speak. We just need to be careful not to slip into humble ignorance speak or they‘ll start paying attention.
Not many posters in the thread who live along the Gulf, maybe?🤷♂️
“All politics/issues are local” and all that.
Except that I'd be willing to bet that, of the people complaining, the amount of time they spend 20 miles off the NJ coast and the amount of time they spend in the Gulf are pretty much exactly the same.
Seriously - raise your and if you've ever been 20+ miles offshore on anything other than a cruise ship. 🖐
China is building the world’s biggest wind turbine in the middle of the ocean — and it’s nearly 70 stories tall
A single blade on the turbine will slice through an area about the size of nine football fields.
Me.
Speaking of whales, we almost hit a whale one time, actually, during a race. Low winds, so only maybe making 4-5 knots at the time.
Guy on the helm says "whoa, look forward". We look and there are some very large whales swimming like 30 yards or so away, perpendicular to us, crossing our bow, spread out in a line, more or less, from left to right. Kind of cool. Then one surfaces directly in front of us, maybe 10 yards ahead or so, spouts a bunch of water then goes right back under again.
I was sleepy, so it didn't really register much at first. But the guy on the helm, the boat owners son who'd been sailing since before he could walk (the family lived 3 houses down from @RU848789), pointed out that if we'd hit the whale, it would've sunk us, even at 4-5 knots.
I can't which race it was. But we were way the hell offshore at the time with no other boats anywhere on the horizon. We had the life raft and epirb and all. But yeah, hitting the whale would've ruined our day. Probably not done the whale a lot of good, either.
Thank goodness we didn't have any of those evil wind-turbines around at the time. Then we all would've been goners for sure, whales and crew.
The amazing thing is that there aren't really any politics here. It's not like windmills or whales are a party platform for the Dems or Reps, right? Hell, there's barely even an issue to speak of. It's just typical NIMBY stuff.
Yet here we are, 52 pages in. 😀
Yep, you for sure. I was thinking you, me and basically nobody else.
My closest whale encounters have always (knock knock) been light winds, calm seas, perfect vis and whales on the beam. I've had 3 of them that have gone exactly that way.
What do you think of the Orca thing?
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