OT: Jersey Cyclone Brewery opening in Somerset May 4 - Ribbon Cutting 12 noon

[WhiteBus]

Surprised Calagione did this.

The time was right to cash in. Sales are down as competition fights for space. I am surprised he sold the Boston Beer. The culture couldn't me more different. The investor group that owns Cigar City...etc was after DFH hard and it would have been a great fit if they really wanted to stay in control. They went for top $$.

 

[rurichdog]

The consolidation has begun with a huge bang. Dogfish Head sold to Boston Beer. Get used to it. More to come.

While big news, this is hardly the beginning of the consolidation. AB InBev has been buying up craft breweries for years.

 

[JayRU09]

Surprised Calagione did this.

I'm surprised but both are seeing their market shares eaten into by the growth of hyper local breweries (which is why using this as evidence that NJ can't support more breweries is absurd, more small breweries opening is why this is happening) it's not that surprising.

He gets to be on the board at Boston Beer so he still retains control over his products, which is probably why he went with this deal over something else. Their portfolios do not compete with each other, and now Sam Adams can focus on what they do best and leave IPAs to Dogfish. Dogfish now gets an in into numerous chain restaurants and takes away one more handle at Chili's from big beer.

 

[WhiteBus]

Yes, he still holds the largest percentage of the class B voting shares. He still controls the company. It's the same as when Sam hired a CEO for Dogfish Head. Him and his wife still held the power within the company.

This isn't a one time move. Sit back and see what happens in the next 9 to 12 months. When the dust settles you will see who is left standing at BB.

 

[WhiteBus]

While big news, this is hardly the beginning of the consolidation. AB InBev has been buying up craft breweries for years.

Nobody this big.

 

[JayRU09]

This isn't a one time move. Sit back and see what happens in the next 9 to 12 months. When the dust settles you will see who is left standing at BB.

So you're wrong, but you're still going to claim you're right. Good god man.

 

[JayRU09]

Nobody this big.

Lagunitas and Ballast Point both went for a cool billion. Lagunitas was about double the barrels per year of Dogfish Head before it sold to Heineken.

 

[Zak57]

I'm surprised but both are seeing their market shares eaten into by the growth of hyper local breweries (which is why using this as evidence that NJ can't support more breweries is absurd, more small breweries opening is why this is happening) it's not that surprising.

He gets to be on the board at Boston Beer so he still retains control over his products, which is probably why he went with this deal over something else. Their portfolios do not compete with each other, and now Sam Adams can focus on what they do best and leave IPAs to Dogfish. Dogfish now gets an in into numerous chain restaurants and takes away one more handle at Chili's from big beer.

You know I posted and then like a minute later actually thought about it and it does make tons of sense. I used to buy Dogfish like the dickens and then stopped once the Jersey breweries started producing great beer.

 

[WhiteBus]

Lagunitas and Ballast Point both went for a cool billion. Lagunitas was about double the barrels per year of Dogfish Head before it sold to Heineken.

You are arguing against yourself. Neither were considered "craft breweries" when they sold.

 

[rurichdog]

You are arguing against yourself. Neither were considered "craft breweries" when they sold.

So what were they considered then?

 

[JayRU09]

You are arguing against yourself. Neither were considered "craft breweries" when they sold.

*spit take*

lol What?

 

[WhiteBus]

So what were they considered then?

National brands. Like Sierra. Like Sam Adams. Volume, large batches and national distribution contracts. DFH proudly has the Independent Craft Brew logo on their packaging. They will no longer be able to use that by the end of year.

 

[WhiteBus]

*spit take*

lol What?

You argue that places like Jersey Cyclone can make it as a brewery because they are local. Than argue Boston Beer, Lagunitas are/were independent craft beer companies???

 

[JayRU09]

You argue that places like Jersey Cyclone can make it as a brewery because they are local. Than argue Boston Beer, Lagunitas are/were independent craft beer companies???

How are you in the beer business without knowing basic Brewers Association definitions?

And yes Dogfish Head will still be able to use the Independent craft brewers logo. It's amazing how much this discussion has exposed you.

 

[rurichdog]

How are you in the beer business without knowing basic Brewers Association definitions?

And yes Dogfish Head will still be able to use the Independent craft brewers logo. It's amazing how much this discussion has exposed you.

Beer truck driver is going back on ignore.

 

[WhiteBus]

How are you in the beer business without knowing basic Brewers Association definitions?

And yes Dogfish Head will still be able to use the Independent craft brewers logo. It's amazing how much this discussion has exposed you.

Let me ask you this. Do you consider Boston Beer and Sierra craft beer companies??

 

[JayRU09]

Let me ask you this. Do you consider Boston Beer and Sierra craft beer companies??

https://www.brewersassociation.org/directories/breweries/

Sierra Nevada: Independent craft brewer

Boston Beer Co: Independent craft brewer

 

[WhiteBus]

https://www.brewersassociation.org/directories/breweries/

Sierra Nevada: Independent craft brewer

Boston Beer Co: Independent craft brewer

Ha. That is what I figured. Too funny.
Is Twisted Tea a beer??

 

[JayRU09]

Ha. That is what I figured. Too funny.
Is Twisted Tea a beer??

Correct answers backed by a source are funny.

It's so easy to ignore you now.

 

[WhiteBus]

Correct answers backed by a source are funny.

It's so easy to ignore you now.

Before today could you buy stock in DFH? Boston Beer is a publicly traded company (THE) (SAM). That's being independent??

 

[Upstream]

Let me ask you this. Do you consider Boston Beer and Sierra craft beer companies??

What's a "craft beer"? You can create a definition to include Sam Adams, and an equally invalid definition to exclude them.

 

[WhiteBus]

What's a "craft beer"? You can create a definition to include Sam Adams, and an equally invalid definition to exclude them.

Boston Beer doesn't create core beers in small batches. National brand. Incorporated as a publically traded company. No different than Blue Moon.

 

[Upstream]

Boston Beer doesn't create core beers in small batches. National brand. Incorporated as a publically traded company. No different than Blue Moon.

Dogfish is distributed nationally, as are beers from Stone, New Belgium, and Brooklyn. So none of those are craft beers? And if it is a matter of being privately owned, vs public, that makes Yuengling a craft brewer, while being bigger than Boston.

The small batch part, makes sense, in defining a craft beer. But without a torturous definition of small batch, to call Dogfish Head beers "craft", you would also need to include AB's Goose Island or BluePoint.

 

[RUSK97]

I've read part of the problem is the breweries can't sell food, and are being hamstrung by local politicians (lobbied by local bar & restaurant owners) from continuously booking food trucks & entertainment. Claiming unfair advantages over the owners of million dollar liquor licenses.

Brewery tap rooms don’t require liquor licenses?!? How is that fair?

 

[WhiteBus]

Dogfish is distributed nationally, as are beers from Stone, New Belgium, and Brooklyn. So none of those are craft beers? And if it is a matter of being privately owned, vs public, that makes Yuengling a craft brewer, while being bigger than Boston.

The small batch part, makes sense, in defining a craft beer. But without a torturous definition of small batch, to call Dogfish Head beers "craft", you would also need to include AB's Goose Island or BluePoint.

Once your are a part of a publicly traded company you can't call yourself independent. DFH just crossed that line. And Wall Street likes the Boston Beer aquistion and why wouldn't they. Beer sales by Boston Beer are in a steep decline but sales of Twisted Tea and their spiked seltzers like Truly.
Blue Point is a perfect example. Now part of the Bud group is everywhere. There is a new section in Yankee Stadium bleachers that is a Blue Point bar. $$ placement.
Goose has grown a lot because of their purchase. Odd packaging, 15 packs but prices are great so it sells. Golden Road and Devils Backbone the same.

 

[WhiteBus]

Brewery tap rooms don’t require liquor licenses?!? How is that fair?

Depends on state law. And true tap rooms in PA can only sell beer, wine or liquor from PA. And there are limitations

 

[JayRU09]

Brewery tap rooms don’t require liquor licenses?!? How is that fair?

Because they produce and only sell their own products. Restaurants can serve liquor, wine, food, and different brands of beer that breweries cannot do.

 

[WhiteBus]

When Brooklyn brewery first opened you had to buy wooden nickles ($5) as the people serving you couldn't accept cash. And NJ was you had to take a tour before you could buy beer.

 

[RUSK97]

Because they produce and only sell their own products. Restaurants can serve liquor, wine, food, and different brands of beer that breweries cannot do.

Interesting...never been to one of these taprooms, but I’ve been to NJ winery tasting rooms...same thing I assume. No wonder - I always wondered why they didn’t serve food.

 

[gregkoko]

I'm surprised but both are seeing their market shares eaten into by the growth of hyper local breweries (which is why using this as evidence that NJ can't support more breweries is absurd, more small breweries opening is why this is happening) it's not that surprising.

He gets to be on the board at Boston Beer so he still retains control over his products, which is probably why he went with this deal over something else. Their portfolios do not compete with each other, and now Sam Adams can focus on what they do best and leave IPAs to Dogfish. Dogfish now gets an in into numerous chain restaurants and takes away one more handle at Chili's from big beer.

The time was right to cash in. Sales are down as competition fights for space. I am surprised he sold the Boston Beer. The culture couldn't me more different. The investor group that owns Cigar City...etc was after DFH hard and it would have been a great fit if they really wanted to stay in control. They went for top $$.

DFH is one of the few big national breweries whose business is up YOY (15% this past year I believe). The rumor flying around right now is BBC did this to pay down debts. Sam and Mariah took almost all stock in the deal. Things will be business as usual at DFH. All this means is you'll see a lot more Sea Quench on the shelves akin to Founders pumping out All Day when they sold to San Miguel

 

[RUPete]

When you live through a merger, it becomes very clear very early which party has control and power in the situation.

 

[RUNYC13]

Wow ! I've been to the Dogfish Head Brew pub in Rehoboth many times when vacationing in Bethany Beach (terrific family beach town). Dogfish 90 one of my favorite IPAs, I had their 120 too there, which was very strong, very tasty, but 1 was enough.

Will the takeover change the Dogfish brand and beers? I hope Lagunitas and Russian River never sell out.

Lagunitas already sold out - Heineken bought them

 

[Leonard23]

According to the 8-K and merger docs, the DFH owners get (i) a Class B Board seat from 2020-2029, and (ii) ~533,000 Class A shares (~406,000 shares upon closing and ~127,000 held in escrow as a retention bonus), which is just over 5% of those shares (with the escrow shares having antidilution protections), but the Class A shares have virtually no voting rights, so they're powerless to retain control over anything, and their Class B Board seat and employment agreements don't help them retain control. All control is by the Class B holders, of which Koch is the sole holder.
DFH owners also have a buyback option for 2 years. Sure they'll initially keep running DFH as a subsidiary of BBC, but BBC is free to remove them at anytime, which is common after acquisitions, just look at other acquisitions where leadership changes a year or 2 after integration. Not saying it'll happen, but it could and typically does.

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/949870/000119312519143046/d689622d8k.htm

 

[JayRU09]

BBC ain't gonna just get rid of Dogfish Head. Sam's on the board for ten years and one of the big points of doing this is that Dogfish Head has a better beer reputation than Sam Adams.

 

[Leonard23]

BBC ain't gonna just get rid of Dogfish Head. Sam's on the board for ten years and one of the big points of doing this is that Dogfish Head has a better beer reputation than Sam Adams.

Who said anything about getting rid of DFH? They can easily get rid of the DFH owners on day 1 and keep the DFH business and marks. The DFH owners have a 5 yr restriction from that business. "Trust" is the only thing keeping the DFH owners...

 

[JayRU09]

Who said anything about getting rid of DFH? They can easily get rid of the DFH owners on day 1 and keep the DFH business and marks. The DFH owners have a 5 yr restriction from that business. "Trust" is the only thing keeping the DFH owners...

I just can't see that happening. Yes, it's technically possible. But it's not going to happen.

 

[Tango Two]

Franklin Township: Jersey Cyclone Brewing Company Open for Business


The 2,500-square-foot tasting room has a bar with eight original beers on tap, high-top tables, and had crafted picnic tables, designed for comfort.

"We wanted people to be able to reach across," Teel said. "We wanted that personal connection, If someone comes in with a box of pizza, they could put it down, and say it fits perfect here."

Patrons can bring in their own food to accompany an IPA or Milk Porter in a 6 oz., 10.5 oz., 16 oz., or 64 oz. growler.


https://www.tapinto.net/towns/franklin-township/sections/food-and-drink/articles/franklin-township-jersey-cyclone-brewing-company-open-for-business

 

[willisneverrana43]

How are you in the beer business without knowing basic Brewers Association definitions?

And yes Dogfish Head will still be able to use the Independent craft brewers logo. It's amazing how much this discussion has exposed you.

I came to this thread because I'll probably stop by this place and have a beer. But I stayed to watch the consistent haymakers being landed in this back-and-forth. It's like Larry Holmes and Randall Tex Cobb. Somebody should stop the fight.

 

[Knightmoves]

I came to this thread because I'll probably stop by this place and have a beer. But I stayed to watch the consistent haymakers being landed in this back-and-forth. It's like Larry Holmes and Randall Tex Cobb. Somebody should stop the fight.

Stop the fight, why?

Some great points about the craft beer industry by posters in this thread. Never too old to learn about new topics in life.

 

[RutHut]

I came to this thread because I'll probably stop by this place and have a beer. But I stayed to watch the consistent haymakers being landed in this back-and-forth. It's like Larry Holmes and Randall Tex Cobb. Somebody should stop the fight.

This board has the highest expertise in beer, even more so than weather. And I don't totally mean it as a backhanded comment.