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OT: Roy Williams doesn't expect UNC hoops to get 'hit in any way at all' by NCAA sanctions

Mr. Williams needs to read the NCAA's Notice of Allegations, which clearly names "Men's Basketball" as one program that benefitted from the long-standing fake class and forged-signature grade changing scheme. In fact, the whole scheme began for the sole purpose of assisting Men's Basketball, before it grew to include FB, WBB, Women’s Soccer, Baseball, etc. 22 of the first 25 "Student-Athletes" to participate were Dean Smith's players, going back to '88-'89, per UNC's own admission as presented in a report to their accreditation agency. Williams' players benefitted the most, in terms of numbers.
 
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Think basketball gets off but football will get a post season ban and lose some ships.

Williams has done a good job denying and I don't think ncaa has smoking gun on basketball like it does under football where past coaches have admitted to it.
 
superfan01 said:
Think basketball gets off but football will get a post season ban and lose some ships.

Williams has done a good job denying and I don't think ncaa has smoking gun on basketball like it does under football where past coaches have admitted to it.
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Well... yes they do. Take a look at the Wainstein Report and its email attachments involving staff, and also the NCAA's NOA. Further, the NCAA has access to student-athlete grade transcripts, which ultimately identify what players took those fake classes and what grade they received and how those grades improved their GPAs, keeping them eligible to play.
 
RUinPinehurst said:
Well... yes they do. Take a look at the Wainstein Report and its email attachments involving staff, and also the NCAA's NOA. Further, the NCAA has access to student-athlete grade transcripts, which ultimately identify what players took those fake classes and what grade they received and how those grades improved their GPAs, keeping them eligible to play.
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THIS!! If the NCAA can see the "courses" were taken, and it had a noticeable, positive effect on that student/athlete's GPA, then deniability goes right out the window.

Unless you use the Boeheim defense of we didn't cheat, we just broke the rules, and didn't bother to see if we broke the rules.
 
miker183 said:
THIS!! If the NCAA can see the "courses" were taken, and it had a noticeable, positive effect on that student/athlete's GPA, then deniability goes right out the window.

Unless you use the Boeheim defense of we didn't cheat, we just broke the rules, and didn't bother to see if we broke the rules.
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NCAA is corrupt and won't punish UNCheat much. Just a slap on the wrist.
 
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Just like with Miami, very little punishment will be meted out. The NCAA will only be tough on small programs without the resources to fight back, make a stink, hire large , expensive law firms and PR companies.

Lousianna Lafayette paid for UNC's sins.

For P5 teams, Cheating pays off.
 
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RUScrew85 said:
NCAA is corrupt and won't punish UNCheat much. Just a slap on the wrist.
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I hear you, but the report says it goes back to Dean Smith players in late 80's, that's almost THIRTY years! If the NCAA does nothing (and I agree with you that they probably won't) they will expose THEMSELVES as a fraud. If they want to be taken seriously, by anyone that doesn't already have their mind made up, they'd be wise to do something that at lease appears serious.
 
I think he is putting a threat out to the NCAA. He right in one aspect. If the bake ball team faces punishment he won't be affected. He probably retires and leave the next coach to handle the mess.
Like all athletes and coaches their egos are part of why they are successful. However statements like this are just arrogant.
 
Scarlet_Scourge said:
If that were to happen, and many fear it might, the NCAA would basically be giving themselves the Death Penalty.
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Don't you think they already have. Backing away from Penn State, this mess and the power 5 looking to take control of Football.
 
WhiteBus said:
Don't you think they already have. Backing away from Penn State, this mess and the power 5 looking to take control of Football.
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It's that old story, everyone KNOWS the NCAA is a joke. But if they do nothing, then everyone knows that everyone knows. Logically it's a bizarre statement, but people sometimes love to live with their head in the sand. Just don't think it would be possible anymore. Fake classes is about as cut and dry as it gets, so the proof is there. What they do with it? That's a whole different story. LOL.
 
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RUScrew85 said:
NCAA is corrupt and won't punish UNCheat much. Just a slap on the wrist.
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Might be the case if there were not a few pending lawsuits involving the NCAA. That vulnerability will prompt the organization to hand down significant punishment against UNC for not only "impermissible benefits" but also for creating an environment that undermined any real opportunity for educating the affected "Student-Athletes." Further, a number of member institutions have been pressuring the NCAA and its COI to hold UNC accountable, namely those schools who were punished by the NCAA and those schools who were cheated out of conference and national championships.
 
WhiteBus said:
I think he is putting a threat out to the NCAA. He right in one aspect. If the bake ball team faces punishment he won't be affected. He probably retires and leave the next coach to handle the mess.
Like all athletes and coaches their egos are part of why they are successful. However statements like this are just arrogant.
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Well... his victories will.be forfeited/vacated. Also, and this is not lost, is that Williams personally benefitted greatly in terms of $: his teams victories brought him salary $, bonus $, endorsement $. And some of that bonus $ dealt with APR scores.
 
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We'll see what Emmert does. But if I were Ole Roy I'd hope my bonus check clears before June 2016.

Southern Association of Colleges and Schools Commission on Colleges
UNC on Probation

Scan down the list; being on Probation is rare. A place with the reputation and prestige of a UNC being on probation is unheard of.

While is highly unlikely the Accreditor will pull it's chit, NCAA bylaws require members to be accredited
 
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RUinPinehurst said:
Well... his victories will.be forfeited/vacated. Also, and this is not lost, is that Williams personally benefitted greatly in terms of $: his teams victories brought him salary $, bonus $, endorsement $. And some of that bonus $ dealt with APR scores.
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I really hope so. Williams is a dick.
 
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miker183 said:
I hear you, but the report says it goes back to Dean Smith players in late 80's, that's almost THIRTY years! If the NCAA does nothing (and I agree with you that they probably won't) they will expose THEMSELVES as a fraud. If they want to be taken seriously, by anyone that doesn't already have their mind made up, they'd be wise to do something that at lease appears serious.
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I don't think the NCAA cares if we think it's a fraud. Hell most people think that already. All the NCAA cares about is the $$$.
 
RUinPinehurst said:
Well... his victories will.be forfeited/vacated. Also, and this is not lost, is that Williams personally benefitted greatly in terms of $: his teams victories brought him salary $, bonus $, endorsement $. And some of that bonus $ dealt with APR scores.
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For a while. Then UNC will sue, the NCAA will work with them to find a legality that they can use to absolve themselves and UNC will agree to a fine, loss of a few scholarships and no post season for a year for FB and BB. Then they will pat themselves on the back and go back to printing money.

Hell, children were raped and it was covered up at PSU and basically nothing happened except a slap on the wrist there. PSU and the NCAA are back to printing money.
 
motorb54 said:
It is sad that they were able to be in the tournament this year.
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They purposely delayed the process over and over again for this very purpose. If the NCAA holds true to form they should get hammered. They go light on those who self report. But those who lie and deny they usually hammer(USC).
 
koleszar said:
They purposely delayed the process over and over again for this very purpose. If the NCAA holds true to form they should get hammered. They go light on those who self report. But those who lie and deny they usually hammer(USC).
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Well the hammer should include any win any UNC team got where a player was in a fictitious class should be forfeit. Unless of course these kids aren't really student athletes. wink wink
 
Abro1975 said:
Just like with Miami, very little punishment will be meted out. The NCAA will only be tough on small programs without the resources to fight back, make a stink, hire large , expensive law firms and PR companies.

Lousianna Lafayette paid for UNC's sins.

For P5 teams, Cheating pays off.
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The NCAA in the Miami case obtained information illegally. They had Miami dead to rights but had to walk away because their investigators screwed the pooch. Miami got very, very lucky on a technicality. The PSU case was a tough one for them, the question being was this something within their jurisdiction. Many felt it was more a legal and moral situation. Which PSU failed in both miserably. Thus the NCAA stepped in legally as best they could in relation to student athletes.

The NCAA takes a lot of heat sometimes but they are not law enforcement. A lot of stuff does not fall under their jurisdiction. Plus they look for Universities to take the moral high road and self report, which is misguided. They really need to hire more investigators in order to root out the less then moral institutions. However, in essence they do work for the Universities and many of those Universities like how they're making money now.
 
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Wonder if the NCAA will do if and when UNC wins the championship. Will they really have the guts to make UNC forfeit the title and hit it hard in terms of any $$$ earned, limit scholarships and come down with the sanctions it deserves and similar to what it has done to other schools. If not then the real joke is on the entire college athletic scene.

I wish someone would do an interview with Bobby Knight who saw this years ago etc. People keep on referring to PSU and the reduction of sanctions for what occurred there and what occurred should never be taken lightly. But this was a criminal issue that should and in part is/was handled ad such and didn't involved gaining a competative advantage and in complete violation of NCAA by laws. The UNC situation is so obvious and the university has been in denial and has been able to skate thru the process for several years etc is mind boggling. The shame is UNC is an excellent academic school similar to PSU and others who have had athletic related issues and only proves that lack of institutional is profitable if you have the $$$$ to create a delay in a decision or to mount a ridiculous defense. And yet other lower profile schools get hit unequally hard. How often have we seen a high profile P5 school in essence skate and East Cupcake University get slammed and in part because it doesn't have the resources to mount a good (albeit poor) defense.

Let's see if the media will have the guts to expose this if and when a final decision is made by the NCAA which we know will be challenged by UNC should it be a harsh one.
 
RUScrew85 said:
NCAA is corrupt and won't punish UNCheat much. Just a slap on the wrist.
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I agree completely. As far as I am concerned the reason this is taking so long is because they are trying to figure out how to punish them without really punishing them. UNC basketball makes too much money for the NCAA to hurt them. Look for something similar to PSU. Where they come down with some sanctions and then one year later back off or lessen them significantly. That way the look good because they did something but then let UNC wriggle off the hook. They may make UNC vacate some championships which really amounts to nothing after the fact but it will look good on paper.
 
WhiteBus said:
Don't you think they already have. Backing away from Penn State, this mess and the power 5 looking to take control of Football.
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With Penn State, you can kind of make a lame case that it was a criminal matter and not a sports matter, plus there was.. (vomits) no rule in the NCAA handbook (why would there be?) for what happen. So they were able to backtrack.

But, in this case, it is extremely clear cut and the the rules broken where the ones that the NCAA always states are the most important and UNC has been breaking them non stop for decades. There is no excuse whatsoever for them not to throw the book at them.
 
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RutgersMO said:
If this was RUTGERS: Willliams FIRED!
AD ....FIRED!
RUTGERS: ON 25 YEAR BAN FROM NCAA (oh wait....so that explains it~).

MO
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Yep, scarlet scourge right. RU is not a power program (yet, hopefully) and as such you are correct. We would be crucified but UNC is a mens basketball cash cow and the NCAA doesn't slaughter it's cash cows.
 
Dpgru said:
Yep, scarlet scourge right. RU is not a power program (yet, hopefully) and as such you are correct. We would be crucified but UNC is a mens basketball cash cow and the NCAA doesn't slaughter it's cash cows.
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Winning matters in so many ways including keeping players eligible.
 
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Scarlet_Scourge said:
With Penn State, you can kind of make a lame case that it was a criminal matter and not a sports matter, plus there was.. (vomits) no rule in the NCAA handbook (why would there be?) for what happen. So they were able to backtrack.

But, in this case, it is extremely clear cut and the the rules broken where the ones that the NCAA always states are the most important and UNC has been breaking them non stop for decades. There is no excuse whatsoever for them not to throw the book at them.
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Dpgru said:
Yep, scarlet scourge right. RU is not a power program (yet, hopefully) and as such you are correct. We would be crucified but UNC is a mens basketball cash cow and the NCAA doesn't slaughter it's cash cows.
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Not sure what you mean by that. The NCAA makes the same $ whether or not UNC excels. UNC, however, makes more $ with victories.
 
RUinPinehurst said:
Not sure what you mean by that. The NCAA makes the same $ whether or not UNC excels. UNC, however, makes more $ with victories.
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The TV contract for the NCAA tournament is worth what it is because of teams like UNC, and many others like them obviously. Sanctioning those schools is more difficult from a financial perspective than sanctioning RU. I guarantee more eyeballs will be watching the championship game with UNC than they would have many many other p5 schools.
 
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Dpgru said:
The TV contract for the NCAA tournament is worth what it is because of teams like UNC, and many others like them obviously. Sanctioning those schools is more difficult from a financial perspective than sanctioning RU. I guarantee more eyeballs will be watching the championship game with UNC than they would have many many other p5 schools.
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Not sure it works that way. The NCAA tourney has a TV draw it does because of folks following their pools/brackets selections. Ad revenue follows that. Individual games draw fans and alumni of those teams/schools, sure, but many many many more eyeballs are following their brackets and wagers. Final Fours and Championship games are no different. Who is playing is irrelevant.

Maybe someone can post the TV ratings for the past five years of championship games and those "all time" highest rated games?
 
RUinPinehurst said:
Not sure it works that way. The NCAA tourney has a TV draw it does because of folks following their pools/brackets selections. Ad revenue follows that. Individual games draw fans and alumni of those teams/schools, sure, but many many many more eyeballs are following their brackets and wagers. Final Fours and
Championship games are no different. Who is playing is irrelevant.
Maybe someone can post the TV ratings for the past five years of championship games and those "all time" highest rated games?
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Actually the only way people's brackets are alive by the finals is if their teams are in the finals and the only teams that make it to the finals are the power teams. The upsets are great, but only in the first two rounds. A Middle Tenn St vs S F Austin final would not be much of a draw. The poser house programs are the teams that the NCAA can not afford to hit too hard with sanctions. Granted there is another team to take their place but I just think that the NCAA does not want to hurt those types of teams with so much on the line. They also do not want to fuel the fire of the "big 64" leaving the NCAA and forming their own affiliation. There is too much of a risk for the ncaa to really do to UNC what they actually deserve. I also believe that the networks do not want teams like UNC and CUSE hurt because there is a ton of money in the league contracts and they do not want the ACC brand hurt. There is money everywhere.
 
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Dpgru said:
Actually the only way people's brackets are alive by the finals is if their teams are in the finals and the only teams that make it to the finals are the power teams. The upsets are great, but only in the first two rounds. A Middle Tenn St vs S F Austin final would not be much of a draw. The poser house programs are the teams that the NCAA can not afford to hit too hard with sanctions. Granted there is another team to take their place but I just think that the NCAA does not want to hurt those types of teams with so much on the line. They also do not want to fuel the fire of the "big 64" leaving the NCAA and forming their own affiliation. There is too much of a risk for the ncaa to really do to UNC what they actually deserve.
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For what it's worth, per the Houston Chronicle, regarding TV numbers from the first two games of this year's Final Four: "The Turner networks averaged 10.5 million viewers for Villanova's win over Oklahoma in the most one-sided game in NCAA Tournament history and 12.9 million for North Carolina's win over Syracuse.

"Last year's Final Four featured fan favorites Kentucky and Duke, with the Kentucky-Wisconsin game drawing an average of 28.2 million viewers, the most-viewed national semifinal game in 19 years and the largest cable audience ever for a college basketball game, and the Duke-Michigan State game averaging 15.3 million viewers."
 
RUinPinehurst said:
For what it's worth, per the Houston Chronicle, regarding TV numbers from the first two games of this year's Final Four: "The Turner networks averaged 10.5 million viewers for Villanova's win over Oklahoma in the most one-sided game in NCAA Tournament history and 12.9 million for North Carolina's win over Syracuse.

"Last year's Final Four featured fan favorites Kentucky and Duke, with the Kentucky-Wisconsin game drawing an average of 28.2
million viewers, the most-viewed national semifinal game in 19 years and the largest cable audience ever for a college basketball game, and the Duke-Michigan State game averaging 15.3 million viewers."
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The networks don't want the ACC brand hurt either. So there is money pressure on the NCAA from all sides. Money talks.
 
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