OT: AZ NCAA Hoops Allegations

AZBlues

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Not surprised, but some heavy duty stuff here from the NCAA... Five level one (highest) violations (among others) against Arizona... Wonder how severe the sanctions will be when the process is completed, and if Sean Miller will be gone.... (Oklahoma State received some pretty severe sanctions for just 1 level one violation. although they've appealed...)

 
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Plum Street

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In college basketball If you ain’t cheating, you ain’t trying .
Lots of guys take a pay cut when they go to nba
 

knights1212

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Arizona will probably get away with everything just as North Carolina did. We won't hear anything for at least 6 months and probably much much longer than that.
 
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Russ Wood

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Impressive. I doubt anyone at Arizona expected them to get more allegations of misconduct than Kansas.

Wait, just read that the NOA includes a charge of lack of head coach control by the women's swimming and diving coach.
 

Plum Street

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90 days to respond and 60 days for ncaa to respond to the response ! I guess this will be announced when Arizona is in sweet 16
 
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AZBlues

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Wait, just read that the NOA includes a charge of lack of head coach control by the women's swimming and diving coach.
I haven't been able to figure out if that means that there are 4 level 1 violations for basketball and 1 for swimming, or 5 level 1's for basketball and 1 for swimming... Different media stories portray it differently....

But yeah.. University of Arizona athletics is definitely having their problems... Swimming and diving is already currently on probation and lost a scholarship for 2021 for recruiting violations from 2017 when the previous head coach was there, and now the new coach also has an NCAA level 1 violation allegation... The track and field program which I've followed for years has been having multiple problems and a ton of bad publicity recently, and we all know about the basketball program... Add former football coach Rich Rodriguez's alleged exploits with his mistress at AZ, and allegations of sexual harassment from his female assistant at AZ during his tenure there prior to 2018, and AZ athletics has certainly had no problem drawing negative attention to itself over the past few years..

The violations that have transpired in the Arizona athletic department over the past few years seem to make things that happened at Rutgers look like jaywalking violations in comparison, even though anything negative that happens at RU seems to get a lot more publicity locally and nationwide...
 

Russ Wood

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Arizona doesn't feel that they will get a fair process with the NCAA so they will go the Independent Accountability Resolution Process.

They likely were gonna make the NCAAT before covid shut down the season. They have the No. 7 ranked 2020 recruiting class & got a commitment from the No. 84 ranked player in the Rivals150 days after the NOA arrived. They did miss on the No. 36 ranked player in the Rivals150. He chose Dayton instead of his home state Arizona.
 

blockm2

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if the NCAA refuses to hammer teams that have been caught red handed paying recruits, they are simply inviting every team to start paying cash to recruits.

I'm not against players getting paid, but they need to make it above board.
 
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Russ Wood

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if the NCAA refuses to hammer teams that have been caught red handed paying recruits, they are simply inviting every team to start paying cash to recruits.

I'm not against players getting paid, but they need to make it above board.
But what penalties = "hammer teams."

The NCAA is not going to shut a program down like they did with the SMU football team back in the day.

To me THAT is dropping the hammer on a program.

The NCAA doesn't control TV broadcasts like they did back in the day.

Their options are fines, reductions in scholarships, reductions in the number of evaluations, official visits, they could issue a show cause and maybe, maybe prohibit a Coach from having in-person contact with recruits for a period of time.
 

blockm2

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But what penalties = "hammer teams."

The NCAA is not going to shut a program down like they did with the SMU football team back in the day.

To me THAT is dropping the hammer on a program.

The NCAA doesn't control TV broadcasts like they did back in the day.

Their options are fines, reductions in scholarships, reductions in the number of evaluations, official visits, they could issue a show cause and maybe, maybe prohibit a Coach from having in-person contact with recruits for a period of time.
show cause penalty to head coach for 5+ years so they cannot be employed by an NCAA school. That will ensure they are monitoring their own program.

Also suspend program from NCAA tourney for multiple seasons which penalizes the school heavily so they are also invested in complying.

isn’t that difficult to incentivize good behavior.
 

Russ Wood

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show cause penalty to head coach for 5+ years so they cannot be employed by an NCAA school. That will ensure they are monitoring their own program.

Also suspend program from NCAA tourney for multiple seasons which penalizes the school heavily so they are also invested in complying.

isn’t that difficult to incentivize good behavior.
"There's the rub," as some guy named Hamlet said in some play when he was was contemplating suicide.

As best as I can tell the Arizona fans, the Arizona administration and the Arizona Board of Regents think Sean Miller's behavior is fine. They just want him to win a Natty. They think that this whole thing, with the exception of what Book and another former assistant coach did, is a witch hunt. They, again as best as I can tell, do not think Sean Miller did anything wrong.

I haven't heard anything from sources in Arizona that lead me to think that UA is even remotely thinking about firing Miller. So he'd have a show cause but would still be coaching the team.

At one point I thought a tournament ban was a big deal but I am not sure it is anymore.

The top kids all say they want to win a national championship, and I'm sure they'd love to compete for one, but their number one goal is getting to the NBA. That dream is will still be alive despite a post season ban since they'll still be on TV and since NBA Scouts will still come to their games, practices or watch their scout video. If Miller is still the coach and he still gets players to the league, I think he'll still be able to recruit.
 

Plum Street

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But what penalties = "hammer teams."

The NCAA is not going to shut a program down like they did with the SMU football team back in the day.

To me THAT is dropping the hammer on a program.

The NCAA doesn't control TV broadcasts like they did back in the day.

Their options are fines, reductions in scholarships, reductions in the number of evaluations, official visits, they could issue a show cause and maybe, maybe prohibit a Coach from having in-person contact with recruits for a period of time.
Can’t they suspend or coaching staff for a year or years ? Can’t they ban the school from the ncaa tournament ?
 

MADHAT1

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Is Arizona considered a part of the Wild West, which might explain things?
UofA is considered one of the elite programs and those type of programs the NCAA haandles with kid gloves unless the program can't find wiggle room to squeeze out of the full consequences their infractions deserve.
Expect the PAC to try to influence the NCAA to go easier on the punishment than Arizona deserves
and give Miller the benefit of doubt on the charges against him that can't be fully proven.
 
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satnom

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Wake me up when Sean Miller, Bill Self and Will “Strong Ass Offer” Wade lose their jobs. Otherwise 🥱

GO RU
 

Russ Wood

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Can’t they suspend or coaching staff for a year or years ? Can’t they ban the school from the ncaa tournament ?
The NCAA can certainly suspend coaches. In fact I think they can suspend a head coach for violations committed by assistant coaches or staff on or after August 1, 2013. The assistant coach or staff member who commits the violation also would face suspension. Even if the violation(s) are Level III violations.

They can give schools a post season ban. We've seen that in the past. Oklahoma State received a post season ban for 2021 and, to the best of my knowledge, none of their players have transferred out of the program.

Oklahoma State is definitely not a blue blood program I wouldn't even consider them an elite program although they have a good basketball history. I just don't think one or two year post season bans matter that much anymore.
 
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blockm2

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"There's the rub," as some guy named Hamlet said in some play when he was was contemplating suicide.

As best as I can tell the Arizona fans, the Arizona administration and the Arizona Board of Regents think Sean Miller's behavior is fine. They just want him to win a Natty. They think that this whole thing, with the exception of what Book and another former assistant coach did, is a witch hunt. They, again as best as I can tell, do not think Sean Miller did anything wrong.

I haven't heard anything from sources in Arizona that lead me to think that UA is even remotely thinking about firing Miller. So he'd have a show cause but would still be coaching the team.

At one point I thought a tournament ban was a big deal but I am not sure it is anymore.

The top kids all say they want to win a national championship, and I'm sure they'd love to compete for one, but their number one goal is getting to the NBA. That dream is will still be alive despite a post season ban since they'll still be on TV and since NBA Scouts will still come to their games, practices or watch their scout video. If Miller is still the coach and he still gets players to the league, I think he'll still be able to recruit.
the Arizona fans will be a lot less pleased with their program if it has a postseason ban for several years. Would also severely cut the finances to their program as they lose out on the conference revenue sharing from the tournament.

Or don't do anything, but if you don't do anything that you have to explicitly change the rules. You can't have rules and choose not to enforce them.
 

Russ Wood

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the Arizona fans will be a lot less pleased with their program if it has a postseason ban for several years. Would also severely cut the finances to their program as they lose out on the conference revenue sharing from the tournament.

Or don't do anything, but if you don't do anything that you have to explicitly change the rules. You can't have rules and choose not to enforce them.
It's gotta suck when your favorite team has a post season ban. Especially if they were good enough to finish in first or second in the Pac-12 basically guaranteeing at least an at-large bid if they weren't banned.

I'm a fan of enforcing the rules.
 

knights1212

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The NCAA let North Carolina escape. Let's see what they do with Arizona, Kansas and LSU. I'm sure nothing will happen for a very long time. The big dogs usually get away with less punishment than mid majors or less successful programs. We shall see how these situations turn out.
 
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Russ Wood

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The NCAA let North Carolina escape. Let's see what they do with Arizona, Kansas and LSU. I'm sure nothing will happen for a very long time. The big dogs usually get away with less punishment than mid majors or less successful programs. We shall see how these situations turn out.
The North Carolina case was much different than the Arizona, Kansas or LSU case. One of the reasons the big dogs, as you put it, usually get away with less punishment than mid majors or less successful programs is because the big dogs don't roll over and play dead (see what I did there).

The lawyers they hire, sometimes former lawyers for the NCAA, know the 'game' and fight the NCAA hard. Other schools admit guilt, point out they fired the culprits, self impose penalties and ask the NCAA for mercy.
 

blockm2

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The North Carolina case was much different than the Arizona, Kansas or LSU case. One of the reasons the big dogs, as you put it, usually get away with less punishment than mid majors or less successful programs is because the big dogs don't roll over and play dead (see what I did there).

The lawyers they hire, sometimes former lawyers for the NCAA, know the 'game' and fight the NCAA hard. Other schools admit guilt, point out they fired the culprits, self impose penalties and ask the NCAA for mercy.
the other problem for schools in this current shoe money situation is that the evidence was collected by the FBI. The NCAA has very little ability to investigate on their own. The FBI handing them the evidence on a silver platter makes it much easier to prove guilt and much tougher to defend from the schools point of view.
 

Russ Wood

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the other problem for schools in this current shoe money situation is that the evidence was collected by the FBI. The NCAA has very little ability to investigate on their own. The FBI handing them the evidence on a silver platter makes it much easier to prove guilt and much tougher to defend from the schools point of view.
This wasn't much of a shoe money situation, as you described it. Almost all of the money was provided by the undercover FBI informant.

T.J. Gassnola, former director of the New England Playaz, was involved with Adidas executive James Gatto's efforts to bribe elite prospects into committing to specific universities, according to federal court documents.

But most of the money was provided by Christian Dawkins and his "investors."