Ok, you’re allowed to be wrong on rare occasions. The money at stake for these universities is too much to pass up for social culture reasons.
If the money is right schools will be added without regard to culture or AAU, as we’ve already seen.
OT: B1G additions
- Thread starter JayDogSmooth
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If the money is right schools will be added without regard to culture or AAU, as we’ve already seen.
I don't see FSU winning in court based on this article: https://www.cbssports.com/college-f...helped-keep-the-acc-together-amid-turbulence/. So what's their settlement, $500M, $600M? I'm also having a hard time seeing how PE gets a good return on its investment to pay $500M-$640M for FSU to exit. Can anyone explain? It'll be some scene to see this lawsuit fail after all the FSU bluster, and I'll be happy to eat crow if they win.
I'm honestly not tuned into the lawsuit legalities as I am not an attorney and have not studied the GOR
The only thing I know about is they (FSU BOT and attorneys) have been to the ACC office no less than half a dozen times to review it, and feel they have a good handle on it
How that translates into an exit, how much they'll have to pay, how long it'll be held up in court, etc. is anyone's guess
I'll believe it when I see it. Lawyers are going to make good $ off of FSU negotiating that $500M settlement.
From the link:
That has led observer after observer to refer to the contracts with a singular adjective: "Ironclad," Bowlsby said.
* * *
After Texas and Oklahoma declared their intentions two years ago, Bowlsby doubled back and vetted the vulnerability of his grant of rights with a New York litigation firm.
"I asked them to tear it apart," Bowlsby said. "They came back and said, 'This is ironclad. You can take it any federal court in the country and win.'"
Because of the rigid nature of the language contained within the grant of rights, Bowlsby added that any issue arising from it is "going to end up having to be a negotiation, not a court trial."
I’d guess it would cost in the hundreds of millions but maybe it’s not all PE. Maybe it’s part donor funded and part PE funded.
If the sum isn’t as large on the PE side of it, maybe it’s seen as a revenue stream investment. Just like you see bigger investors get into real estate. Or maybe it’s also like owning a piece of a pro team but with an actual income stream. A portion of tv revenue, merchandising, advertising, ticket gate etc..might go to repayment plus interest or some agreed upon return. It would likely have to be a long term investment though which isn’t always the case with PE investments. In the past year or so, i have been seeing more sports related investments from bigger investors so who knows.
I wouldn’t assume FSU will get out a decade plus earlier but if deep pockets like PE are helping them then I wouldn’t close the door completely.
All good points
I think the other thing people are forgetting about is when you have FU type money, it's more about ego and the like at that stage for some people
E.G. I write a 300 million dollar check, I become the T Boone Pickens, Phil Knight, Ben Hill Griffin of Tallahassee, and can dictate X to the athletic dept.
I know of no such person with that amount of wealth who is invested in the program, I'm just using that as an example of what can go through someone's head with that amount of money who's not afraid to spend it
you misunderstand
I'm not talking about the football product or who is desired only the nonsense about culture as it relates to cultural differences. actually i reread yours and agree to an extent. I think I read that wrong first time
one of the boosters at smu said and I quote, 'it's only a couple hundred million'
that's FU money
If FSU leaves the ACC for the B1G, would they more or less play for pennies like SMU and be funded almost exclusively by private funding? I feel like B1G is stretched pretty thin until the next media deal comes around in 2030. 18 mouths to feed before FSU and someone else is a lot.
First world problems my friend - We could use one or two of those at Rutgers!
Can that be renegotiated with the addition of two more schools?
I read somewhere that it can, but of course I did not verify this diligently as some expect me to do, so my final answer is 'maybe'.
Ross Dellenger with some interesting tweets - amongst other things, he says that FSU will seek a “declaratory judgement action” to get out of GOR
I don’t think there is a pro rata agreement in the B10 contract with the exception of ND. It’s always possible the networks could ante up more money if they want the additions but it’s not in the contract according to reports.
The better avenue with likely more potential is opening up a new window with ESPN or deal with the tech companies like Amazon or Apple for another tv package. That is what could get any new additions more money. With enough big names in the conference, there might be enough good selections to go around to fulfill a solid slate of games for all the partners.
A few more interesting tweets
Staples is usually spot on, his podcasts are a great listen
SEC saying no
I can get used to this look
Staples is usually spot on, his podcasts are a great listen
SEC saying no
I can get used to this look
That was always likely the case. The SEC would probably only add a FSU/Clemson as a "defensive move" not because they actually want them. I'm not sure that's enough to motivate them. That's part of why Thamel had UNC/UVA ranked higher on the expansion list. Those 2 are new markets for both the B10 and SEC while FSU/Clemson would be new only for the B10.
What FSU needs is a partner. UNC would be the best but would they be willing to pay the hundreds of millions it could potentially cost. I hear talk all hell would break loose if FSU gets out but not necessarily. No one has any clue of what the terms would be even if FSU gets out and would those terms be as amenable to other institutions. I'm not sure the B10 would take Clemson, forget about the academics part but how much value are they adding if they can't maintain that high level that Dabo achieved for a period of time. Are they still the same draw? South Carolina isn't a big market either like Florida or NC. Like I often say, these aren't short term decisions but very long term ones.
I don't see landing spots for all the schools as some may think. Personally, I think the B10 would stop at 20 and would only go over 20 if ND is involved. Would the B10 stay at 19 if FSU is the only one to deal with whatever terms may come with a challenge to the GOR and then wait for whatever many years for #20 or beyond if ND got involved.
The other ACC schools could be taking a wait-and-see approach to see how this all shakes out, and, presumably pay a smaller fee at the end, and avoid the legal expenses as well
And why would the ACC accept a smaller fee than whatever FSU might have to pay. Once a precedent is set I don't see any motivation to accept less from anyone else.
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It could cost them more money, headaches, and time to litigate it through court, rather than to just accept a flat negotiated discounted amount, not to mention the headaches of playing football and other sports with School , who are actively suing the conference to get out
I don't see them doing anything that would make it easier to leave with so much time left on the GOR.
Nah. The first outcome (FSU) will determine precedent for the second outcome, which will eliminate the need for extensive litigation for the next school and the conference.
Another interesting question; if FSU and another school leaves, who gets added or does the ACC just stop with the backfill 3 ?
Tulane ?
Let's say FSU & UVA leave by 25 or 26
The conference, for all intents and purposes, is DOA
Any school with a pulse for athletics (Pack, Tech, UVA, Clemmy, scUM) would all be looking to jet ASAP
Hence, strike a deal w/them to avoid a public, messy & costly divorce and move on with the likes of SMU, Cal, Stanford, and whatever other non-football centric schools they decide to add to their once proud conference
I just assumed they'll do what every other conference has done and backfill with other schools
Tulane, maybe Tulsa, USF, FAU, FIU, etc.
I've always said I wouldn't be surprised if WVU and UCF change conferences in the future and maybe a UConn added as well. They fit geographically better in the ACC than the B12 and I don't see that the money differences between the two as that big one way or the other. The B12 GOR comes up around 2030 though so it would likely be around then if it happened.
Clemson is legit, the others not so much.
It's essentially dead when the 2 big guys leave, and when Clemson bolts, we're looking at essentially mid major status
The conference will be the same as the B12 now plus ND will still be there too as partial member.
They can all look as much as they want but just a few likely have actual landing spots. I don't consider the B12 a landing spot because it's on par. If anything I could see WVU UCF change towards the ACC in the 2030 area when the GOR comes up.
Look how long and hard the PAC tried to stay together and that was even for the B10 let alone the B12. I expect the same from the ACC schools as far as the B12 is concerned. The financial differences one way or the other won't be enough but better geography could be enough for a WVU and UCF. UConn possible as well if they're needed.
I could definitely see WVU and UCF coming on board
Re. UCF, if they got good back when Boise State was having success 15 years ago or back when Oregon got good 20 years ago, they might have had a shot at being a top tier program (although not in the P2)
Crazy as it sounds, are we even sure adding FSU would increase revenues for the other 18 ?
It’s a different equation now compared to when Nebraska was added.
FSU would have to know it has a landing place before creating such a spectacle, but how can they really know ? Do they know ND would finally break and join with them?
Sixth Street is at least one of the PE firms that might "invest" in FSU. An article from the summer.
From the article:
Florida State University (FSU) has drafted in JPMorgan Chase to explore raising capital from institutional funds, such as private equity, for its athletic department, according to Sportico.
Sixth Street, which is the majority shareholder of the National Women’s Soccer League’s (NWSL) Bay Area expansion franchise and has a cut of Barcelona’s domestic TV rights revenue, is reportedly in advanced talks to lead a possible investment.
The deal would mark the first time institutional money has entered college sports, following in the footsteps of the likes of soccer, the National Basketball Association (NBA), Formula One and golf.
In terms of how the deal would be structured, FSU is purportedly considering mirroring the approach taken in other professional sports investments where commercial rights are bundled into a new company which the private equity firm invests in. The investor then recoups its money via future media and sponsorship revenue.
This approach has already been adopted by Silver Lake and CVC Capital Partners for their investments in New Zealand Rugby (NZR) and LaLiga respectively.
It has not been reported which FSU entity is most involved in the process. Sportico notes that Florida law allows its public universities to organise their athletic departments as separate nonprofits, adding that there is a complex web of entities that includes the school itself, its booster organisation and these nonprofit athletic setups.
Florida State University enlists JPMorgan as it targets private investment, says report - SportsPro
Florida State University is exploring institutional investment as it considers its future in the Atlantic Coast Conference.
www.sportspromedia.com
I would think you'd need another top brand (ND, UNC, etc.) to make it worth it for the B1G. That, and I doubt they'd want an odd number of members
Crazy how much $$ is in play hereSixth Street is at least one of the PE firms that might "invest" in FSU. An article from the summer.
From the article:
Florida State University (FSU) has drafted in JPMorgan Chase to explore raising capital from institutional funds, such as private equity, for its athletic department, according to Sportico.
Sixth Street, which is the majority shareholder of the National Women’s Soccer League’s (NWSL) Bay Area expansion franchise and has a cut of Barcelona’s domestic TV rights revenue, is reportedly in advanced talks to lead a possible investment.
The deal would mark the first time institutional money has entered college sports, following in the footsteps of the likes of soccer, the National Basketball Association (NBA), Formula One and golf.
In terms of how the deal would be structured, FSU is purportedly considering mirroring the approach taken in other professional sports investments where commercial rights are bundled into a new company which the private equity firm invests in. The investor then recoups its money via future media and sponsorship revenue.
This approach has already been adopted by Silver Lake and CVC Capital Partners for their investments in New Zealand Rugby (NZR) and LaLiga respectively.
It has not been reported which FSU entity is most involved in the process. Sportico notes that Florida law allows its public universities to organise their athletic departments as separate nonprofits, adding that there is a complex web of entities that includes the school itself, its booster organisation and these nonprofit athletic setups.
Florida State University enlists JPMorgan as it targets private investment, says report - SportsPro
Florida State University is exploring institutional investment as it considers its future in the Atlantic Coast Conference.
Ridiculous amounts
I think it would. It's Florida and FSU is a big brand in Florida. It's a new big market for the BTN and it has national appeal as well.
It really depends on what the networks want but I think it would be attractive to them. If Oregon and Washington can make the numbers work (albeit at a reduced share temporarily) then I think FSU can as well.
Plus like I said getting a new package be it with ESPN or Amazon/Apple is the best way to get more money for the new additions. You might be able to squeeze a little more from the current partners but the bulk of new money would be easier to get from an entirely new partner. I think you'd have enough solid to very good draws in conference to fulfill a decent slate of games for all the partners.
And that's the reason you can't assume FSU would be the pied piper for others in the conference. You don't know which institutions are willing to pay that much or who even will have access to PE/investor money on that scale especially without a secure landing spot.
I couldn't care less who ends up where
Clemson I like, but the others can rot
UNC is as corrupt and hypocritical as they come, as essentiall ruined the league
State is little brother and always will be, and will never be revalent
Forget about Duke, they're also corrupt and will never be consistenly good in FB
Miami can EABOD - but chances are they'll figure things out one day
Cuse, Wake, BC and Pitt - bring nothing to the table football wise
GT - great market, awful football
UVA & VT - I actually like them
