OT: B1G additions

[rutgersguy1]

I couldn't care less who ends up where
Clemson I like, but the others can rot

UNC is as corrupt and hypocritical as they come, as essentiall ruined the league
State is little brother and always will be, and will never be revalent
Forget about Duke, they're also corrupt and will never be consistenly good in FB
Miami can EABOD - but chances are they'll figure things out one day

Cuse, Wake, BC and Pitt - bring nothing to the table football wise
GT - great market, awful football

UVA & VT - I actually like them

You don't need to care but I'm talking about talk about the ACC turning into the PAC and disappearing because everyone will jump ship. I don't see it. A few might be able to but the rest I don't see it and frankly don't think they would want to if it's not the SEC or B10 and most want have seats at either table.

 

[jaydogsmooth1]

You don't need to care but I'm talking about talk about the ACC turning into the PAC and disappearing because everyone will jump ship. I don't see it. A few might be able to but the rest I don't see it and frankly don't think they would want to if it's not the SEC or B10 and most want have seats at either table.

Again, once we leave, which appears inevitable, I do not care one iota what happens to the league.

When you've carried the conference for most of its existence, and nobody else sans Clemson picks up the slack, you do what you need to do to stay elite

 

[rutgersguy1]

Again, once we leave, which appears inevitable, I do not care one iota what happens to the league.

When you've carried the conference for most of its existence, and nobody else sans Clemson picks up the slack, you do what you need to do to stay elite

No one is asking you to care, this discussion is about multiple things.....FSU/ACC/B10/SEC/B12 etc...

 

[RUTGERS95]

A few more interesting tweets

Staples is usually spot on, his podcasts are a great listen

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SEC saying no

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I can get used to this look

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lol it's like pre telling a girl you know doesn't want you that you're not interested to save face

 

[JayDogSmooth]

No one is asking you to care, this discussion is about multiple things.....FSU/ACC/B10/SEC/B12 etc...

Exactly, and chances are that there are a few schools, family, FSU, Clemson , North Carolina, and Virginia at a minimum that will have other other landing spots

It’s due to schools, not giving a shit in football like the Wake Forest, the Boston colleges, the Syracuse, etc. that we were even having this conversation

I assume majority of those schools will end up in either the big 12 or something lower than that

 

[JayDogSmooth]

lol it's like pre telling a girl you know doesn't want you that you're not interested to save face

In fairness, we tried for years to get into the SEC and were repeatedly told no

I think it would be great to have all those schools and Fan bases travel to Tallahasee for football weekends, but the choice is clear cut at the right decision is the big 10

 

[RUTGERS95]

That was always likely the case. The SEC would probably only add a FSU/Clemson as a "defensive move" not because they actually want them. I'm not sure that's enough to motivate them. That's part of why Thamel had UNC/UVA ranked higher on the expansion list. Those 2 are new markets for both the B10 and SEC while FSU/Clemson would be new only for the B10.

What FSU needs is a partner. UNC would be the best but would they be willing to pay the hundreds of millions it could potentially cost. I hear talk all hell would break loose if FSU gets out but not necessarily. No one has any clue of what the terms would be even if FSU gets out and would those terms be as amenable to other institutions. I'm not sure the B10 would take Clemson, forget about the academics part but how much value are they adding if they can't maintain that high level that Dabo achieved for a period of time. Are they still the same draw? South Carolina isn't a big market either like Florida or NC. Like I often say, these aren't short term decisions but very long term ones.

I don't see landing spots for all the schools as some may think. Personally, I think the B10 would stop at 20 and would only go over 20 if ND is involved. Would the B10 stay at 19 if FSU is the only one to deal with whatever terms may come with a challenge to the GOR and then wait for whatever many years for #20 or beyond if ND got involved.

VA isn't a new mkt for the BIG. We already have the DC and Northern VA which is the only dma that actually matters in VA. As for recruiting, BIG already does that.

FSU runs into issues as a result of UF (with respect to SEC) and lack of bringing anything new other than eyeballs, to the SEC. UVA adds nothing but academics to the equation

 

[RUTGERS95]

The other ACC schools could be taking a wait-and-see approach to see how this all shakes out, and, presumably pay a smaller fee at the end, and avoid the legal expenses as well

I would think that too however, if the FSU challenge gains steam then we'll see the other schools scramble to reorg or find a resting place thus, adding to the steam. I agree they are watching to see which direction the wind blows

 

[RUTGERS95]

I've always said I wouldn't be surprised if WVU and UCF change conferences in the future and maybe a UConn added as well. They fit geographically better in the ACC than the B12 and I don't see that the money differences between the two as that big one way or the other. The B12 GOR comes up around 2030 though so it would likely be around then if it happened.

b12 will add osu and wsu imho

wvu, ucf would go acc for sure

 

[Caliknight]

The schools I keep hearing about for the B1G are UNC and Uva. And to a lesser extent GT.

 

[RUTGERS95]

In fairness, we tried for years to get into the SEC and were repeatedly told no

I think it would be great to have all those schools and Fan bases travel to Tallahasee for football weekends, but the choice is clear cut at the right decision is the big 10

that's not recent though and recent is all that matters as the landscape is fundamentally different than even 15yrs ago

FSU is a national brand, the numbers state as much. FSU academics are now more important to the school and they've embarked on AAU, R1 additional funding, chaired new matters etc etc.. FSU belongs in the BIG and with trips to NYC/Philly corridor that will open things up for FSU the likes of which only Miami can relate to

If FSU can leave and they go BIG, you are looking at 2 others plus ND. Scheduling will force ND to join the league

 

[JayDogSmooth]

Big numbers being thrown around

 

[Leonard23]

I don’t think there is a pro rata agreement in the B10 contract with the exception of ND. It’s always possible the networks could ante up more money if they want the additions but it’s not in the contract according to reports.

The better avenue with likely more potential is opening up a new window with ESPN or deal with the tech companies like Amazon or Apple for another tv package. That is what could get any new additions more money. With enough big names in the conference, there might be enough good selections to go around to fulfill a solid slate of games for all the partners.

Not sure ABC/ESPN has any good timeslots available. Another TV/streaming option could present itself with Turner Sports (TNT and TBS) and Paramount+ if/when Warner Bros. Discovery and Paramount Global merge:
https://www.axios.com/2023/12/20/warner-bros-paramount-merger-discovery-streaming.

Sixth Street is at least one of the PE firms that might "invest" in FSU. An article from the summer.


From the article:

Florida State University (FSU) has drafted in JPMorgan Chase to explore raising capital from institutional funds, such as private equity, for its athletic department, according to Sportico.

Sixth Street, which is the majority shareholder of the National Women’s Soccer League’s (NWSL) Bay Area expansion franchise and has a cut of Barcelona’s domestic TV rights revenue, is reportedly in advanced talks to lead a possible investment.

The deal would mark the first time institutional money has entered college sports, following in the footsteps of the likes of soccer, the National Basketball Association (NBA), Formula One and golf.

In terms of how the deal would be structured, FSU is purportedly considering mirroring the approach taken in other professional sports investments where commercial rights are bundled into a new company which the private equity firm invests in. The investor then recoups its money via future media and sponsorship revenue.

This approach has already been adopted by Silver Lake and CVC Capital Partners for their investments in New Zealand Rugby (NZR) and LaLiga respectively.

It has not been reported which FSU entity is most involved in the process. Sportico notes that Florida law allows its public universities to organise their athletic departments as separate nonprofits, adding that there is a complex web of entities that includes the school itself, its booster organisation and these nonprofit athletic setups.

Florida State University enlists JPMorgan as it targets private investment, says report - SportsPro

Florida State University is exploring institutional investment as it considers its future in the Atlantic Coast Conference.

www.sportspromedia.com

Thanks for sharing this article. I'm still struggling to see how the PE group makes a good return on its investment.

 

[jaydogsmooth1]

Meeting started at 10 - cliff notes below

FSU stating breach of contract - claims include:
- Extending ESPN deal without 2/3 votes
- Breach of fiduicary duty
- Failure to maximize revenue and look out for members

Court ruled when MD left, GOR was a penalty (they're saying you can't do that in contracts)

BOT wants to file today to sue the ACC (not sure if declartaory action or suing acc for breach of contract) - will be done shortly with BOT approval.

Greenberg is representing them (national firm)

Complaint getting filed today

 

[bigmatt718]

Nah. The first outcome (FSU) will determine precedent for the second outcome, which will eliminate the need for extensive litigation for the next school and the conference.

Another interesting question; if FSU and another school leaves, who gets added or does the ACC just stop with the backfill 3 ?

Tulane ?

Tulane and USF, IMO. Both put a lot of money into their facilities (both have or will have on campus stadiums), and both academically are very sound schools. I'd say ACC would add them...and cause Connie fans to melt down after failing to get into a power conference for about the 8th time in the last decade.

 

[NickRU714]

All good points

I think the other thing people are forgetting about is when you have FU type money, it's more about ego and the like at that stage for some people

E.G. I write a 300 million dollar check, I become the T Boone Pickens, Phil Knight, Ben Hill Griffin of Tallahassee, and can dictate X to the athletic dept.

I know of no such person with that amount of wealth who is invested in the program, I'm just using that as an example of what can go through someone's head with that amount of money who's not afraid to spend it

I have no idea of the numbers but I imagine a pretty easy repayment schedule could be designed.

It's basically a structured finance deal.
These things happen daily.
FSU has a pretty stable revenue stream to collateralize (BIG Conference revenue).

FSU would issue $500m (cost of ACC buyout) of notes to investors.

Future revenue streams (based on BIG conference payouts expectations) would payoff the notes (for example principle plus LIBOR) on a quarterly basis.

Honestly, I wouldn't doubt that more schools go this route in the future to pay for infrastructure improvements ($500m for stadium upgrades or something).
Instead of waiting for private donor money (that may never actually come).

FSU would be behind in usable conference revenue (since they would have to pay back the notes) but they would still be ahead of their ACC payouts for the next 13 years.

 

[RUTGERS95]

Meeting started at 10 - cliff notes below

FSU stating breach of contract - claims include:
- Extending ESPN deal without 2/3 votes
- Breach of fiduicary duty
- Failure to maximize revenue and look out for members

Court ruled when MD left, GOR was a penalty (they're saying you can't do that in contracts)

BOT wants to file today to sue the ACC (not sure if declartaory action or suing acc for breach of contract) - will be done shortly with BOT approval.

Greenberg is representing them (national firm)

Complaint getting filed today

the vote on espn deal at 2/3rds could be huge. what do we know about this

 

[jaydogsmooth1]

the vote on espn deal at 2/3rds could be huge. what do we know about this

How the hell does that even happen? Seems like a very basic SOP

 

[RUTGERS95]

man the stuff coming out on this is incredible

holy shit I don't see how the ACC/ESPN survives this

 

[RUTGERS95]

How the hell does that even happen? Seems like a very basic SOP

not to mention the extension at 2027 that wasn't exercised that the schools don't know about unless they go see the contract

there are unexecuted portions of the contract as well

the secrecy and issues around just seeing the contract are surreal. wow,

 

[jaydogsmooth1]

not to mention the extension at 2027 that wasn't exercised that the schools don't know about unless they go see the contract

there are unexecuted portions of the contract as well

the secrecy and issues around just seeing the contract are surreal. wow,

Par for the course for this trash conference
Swofford and his Tabacco Road cronies completely ruined it
I can't wait to lay 50 on most of these jokers out the door

 

[jaydogsmooth1]

The writing is on the wall...

 

[NickRU714]

Straight amortization of $572m at 6-month LIBOR (5.72%) for 15 years is approx. $55m annually.

Assume modest $100m per year conference revenue for FSU in the BIG Ten (likely higher?) that is net $45m/year.
How much is the ACC payouts? $40m?
At worst FSU would be even during the same period they would be stuck in the ACC.

However, if the Big Conference payouts go up based on FSU being included, then they are that much further ahead right from the start.

 

[Hardslider21]

If FSU leaves the ACC for the B1G, would they more or less play for pennies like SMU and be funded almost exclusively by private funding? I feel like B1G is stretched pretty thin until the next media deal comes around in 2030. 18 mouths to feed before FSU and someone else is a lot.

Oregon & Washington aren’t getting full share. I believe it’s 50% until next contract

 

[AntiG]

Last round of expansion 2012 after Maryland left, Big Ten reached out to GT, FSU, Duke, Miami, UNC and UVA but UNC/UVA rejected them immediately and offered concessions to FSU and Clemson so the others stayed put and signed the GOR. We'll see what happens this time around but I think at least those first four are jumping over once the lawsuit proves successful. GOR is antitrust, especially retaining media rights and imagery.

 

[Hardslider21]

Straight amortization of $572m at 6-month LIBOR (5.72%) for 15 years is approx. $55m annually.

Assume modest $100m per year conference revenue for FSU in the BIG Ten (likely higher?) that is net $45m/year.
How much is the ACC payouts? $40m?
At worst FSU would be even during the same period they would be stuck in the ACC.

However, if the Big Conference payouts go up based on FSU being included, then they are that much further ahead right from the start.

The contract is signed FSU isn’t going to change that and since Oregon/Washington didn’t get full share value. It’s safe to say that they won’t either.

I haven’t heard anything that FSU has even been offered by the B1G. First they don’t meet the 24 sport team requirements.
The 2 schools highest on the B1G radar are & will remain ND & Carolina.

 

[NickRU714]

Oregon & Washington aren’t getting full share. I believe it’s 50% until next contract

Note: They are getting full shares immediately (and the requisite full membership rights). However, part of it is being paid back immediately eqch year to pay down their purchase of share of ownership in the BTN. Same as Rutgers situation.


Big Ten has proven that above all else, there is zero precedent regarding the cost new teams have to pay for their share of the BTN.
They basically make up new rules each expansion.

 

[Hardslider21]

Note: They are getting full shares immediately (and the requisite full membership rights). However, part of it is being paid back immediately eqch year to pay down their purchase of share of ownership in the BTN. Same as Rutgers situation.


Big Ten has proven that above all else, there is zero precedent regarding the cost new teams have to pay for their share of the BTN.
They basically make up new rules each expansion.

Oregon, Washington join Big Ten: Programs depart Pac-12 in 2024 after serving as charter members since 1915

My number of 50% comes from this article 🤷‍♂️

 

[RUsundevil]

With a 12 team playoff, ND loses its main incentive to join a conference. If you see conferences playing only conference games like has been rumored to be the direction in bball coupled with a loss of FSU, then that could entice ND to join a conference.

 

[LETSGORU91]

Big numbers being thrown around

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$572 million to exit? Just have Ohtani pick up the tab.

 

[Hardslider21]

 

[Hardslider21]

FSU can stomp their feet, cry, bitch n moan, but they ain’t leaving. 😂

 

[jaydogsmooth1]

FSU can stomp their feet, cry, bitch n moan, but they ain’t leaving. 😂

I stand by my statement of 2-3 years and we're out
2025 is what I've heard
If everything lines up like I've been told, this year could be the last in the ACC

 

[jaydogsmooth1]

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Not surprising
Hell, I wish they would have fought this hard when FSU was excluded from the playoffs

End of the day, the league is dead man walking
We'll be fine, as will UNC, Clemson, UVA and likely Miami

NCS, VT, Pitt, Duke & GT are debatable (B12 or league # 3 in pecking order)
BC, Wake and Cuse are done

 

[krup]

Not surprising
Hell, I wish they would have fought this hard when FSU was excluded from the playoffs

End of the day, the league is dead man walking
We'll be fine, as will UNC, Clemson, UVA and likely Miami

NCS, VT, Pitt, Duke & GT are debatable (B12 or league # 3 in pecking order)
BC, Wake and Cuse are done

Louisville and Pitt seem like no brainers for the B12. They justify it on their own, but they are also additive to schools the B12 already has (WVU and Cincinnati).

 

[jaydogsmooth1]

Louisville and Pitt seem like no brainers for the B12. They justify it on their own, but they are also additive to schools the B12 already has (WVU and Cincinnati).

I always forget about Ville
They've invested a lot in their athletic dept.
Solid program

 

[RUTGERS95]

Last round of expansion 2012 after Maryland left, Big Ten reached out to GT, FSU, Duke, Miami, UNC and UVA but UNC/UVA rejected them immediately and offered concessions to FSU and Clemson so the others stayed put and signed the GOR. We'll see what happens this time around but I think at least those first four are jumping over once the lawsuit proves successful. GOR is antitrust, especially retaining media rights and imagery.

JHC stop making stuff up and just log off and go away.

BIG didn 't even contact MD, it was MD that contacted the BIG. RU went the way of NU

do you even understand the legalities of interfering in conference demise here?

 

[RUTGERS95]

what to watch for; other member schools joining fsu lawsuit

clock ticking and ...............

 

[AdventureHasAName]

The schools I keep hearing about for the B1G are UNC and Uva. And to a lesser extent GT.

I find it hard to believe we'd want UNC and UVA if we didn't want Stanford and Berkley.

 

[jaydogsmooth1]

what to watch for; other member schools joining fsu lawsuit

clock ticking and ...............

I'm wondering what Clemson and Miami are waiting for
They're the only other schools in the league with any hopes of winning a national title or being relevant in our lifetimes