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OT: Cat 5 Cyclone Winston about to strike Fiji - top 3 storm ever (185 mph sustained winds)

Wasn't last winter in the northeast the coldest on record
Nope. Was generally about top 20-30 coldest for most locations in the NE, because December was quite warm. You're probably remembering Feb/March, which were way below normal (was 2nd coldest feb ever in NYC) and March doesn't "count" towards winter stats (see below). It was a top 5 snowiest winter for much of the northeast, with Boston and Providence breaking their all-time snowfall records. Overall, for the lower 48, it was the 20th warmest winter ever.

https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/national/201513

statewidetavgrank-201412-201502.gif
 
^RCtrooper used to run around here quoting Al Gore. According to him we'd all be dead right now.
 
It's actually scary to see people who believe they are free thinkers but are really parroting what oil companies want them to say.

Exactly.
It's not the oil companies that are saying things to protect their profits. It's those darn climate experts, motivated by their bottom lines.
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
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there's something very Foxnewsian about much of this thread...hilarious, actually![roll]
It's actually scary to see people who believe they are free thinkers but are really parroting what oil companies want them to say.

It's more SAD than anything else.

A bunch of people are probably going to die soon and it seems all most of you in this thread can do is yell how right you are at each other.
 
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Wait...he was referencing something from nearly 2,000 years ago ?
That makes no sense.

1,850 was kind of a guess. Not sure. I understand the Greek astronomer and historian Ptolemy was the one considered the father of that theory. He lived under Roman rule in the 1st or 2nd century so I figure he influenced the senate. Of course I could be way off but if I am some super brain here will correct me.
 
It's more SAD than anything else.

A bunch of people are probably going to die soon and it seems all most of you in this thread can do is yell how right you are at each other.
Yep, grinding their axe is far more important than caring about the welfare of people facing a catastrophic storm.
 
It's an ignorant point that could only be made by someone who has just enough knowledge of the subject to think they understand it--but they really don't.
Actually, I don't claim to understand it at all. Per usual, you like to lump everyone you don't agree with into a big lump. My initial response in the thread was simply a question based on comments that have been posted on this very board by many of the posters in this thread.
 
I think we all agree on this point. The natural cycles deniers have fostered an environment where the word pollution has essentially been removed from the vocabulary in favor of mythical man-made CC.
Actually, I don't claim to understand it at all. Per usual, you like to lump everyone you don't agree with into a big lump. My initial response in the thread was simply a question based on comments that have been posted on this very board by many of the posters in this thread.
But why? I'm not sure why the label of the issue is so important to you. Is this a marketing issue?
 
It's more SAD than anything else.

A bunch of people are probably going to die soon and it seems all most of you in this thread can do is yell how right you are at each other.

Damage is likely catastrophic in many of the small villages with structures not built to withstand 185 mph sustained winds, which Winston had at landfall early this morning, making it the strongest cyclone in the Southern Hemisphere, ever, and 3rd strongest overall.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/20/us/tropical-cyclone-winston-fiji/

I hoped this thread wouldn't go where it went, as I was careful not to say anything about GW in my initial post. However, once people started spouting bullshit, I had to step in.
 
You're simply being ridiculous by calling people "natural cycle deniers." Climatologists don't deny natural cycles at all - that's not the point. The point is that usually any natural cycles are nowhere near as "fast" in terms of rate of change, as global warming has been over the last 100 years, which is a blink of the eye in time, geologically speaking; ice ages typically take thousands of years to assert themselves. Any man-made component of GW would have to be considered along with natural cycles - that's just good science. Volcanoes are a different story, as any climatologist would agree - but nobody can plan for volcanoes.

I've always asked what percentage of CC do the believers think is caused by man. Never seem to get a consistent answer. I've read some say 100 percent ! That's just screwball logic considering the earth's history. These are the weidos I refer to as natural cycles deniers. Clearly you're not in that camp, #s
 
As someone with degrees in meteorology and climatology and with some (admittedly) minor body of research in the subject, it puzzles me (and amuses me) how vitriolic this subject has become...wildly fascinating, in fact.

Interestingly enough, it is never my students who get frothy in the mouth about it, but typically the more politically inclined and often scientifically clueless who love to "color" along red-blue lines (shocking, I know!!):boxing:

If only I had a background in sociology and/or psychology, it would make for a really cool study or research topic.

Remarkable!
 
In the 90s the same people who today deny that man has had any hand in creating global warming were denying that global warming was even happening at all. One would think having been proven wrong once they wouldn't be so certain the second time around...
 
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As someone with degrees in meteorology and climatology and with some (admittedly) minor body of research in the subject, it puzzles me (and amuses me) how vitriolic this subject has become...wildly fascinating, in fact.

Interestingly enough, it is never my students who get frothy in the mouth about it, but typically the more politically inclined and often scientifically clueless who love to "color" along red-blue lines (shocking, I know!!):boxing:

If only I had a background in sociology and/or psychology, it would make for a really cool study or research topic.

Remarkable!

Agreed, quite fascinating. What really puzzles me are people with strong scientific backgrounds, usually on the right, who think the relatively minor "profit motive" for mostly government scientists is enough to have them all be in on some grand scientific conspiracy, with regard to global warming, yet ignore the far larger "profit motive" of the big energy/oil companies, who underwrite much of the "skeptical" science.

I know a couple of well-respected climatologists, one of whom is quite liberal and one of whom is fairly conservative, but each of them has no doubt that GW is real and that human activities are at least partly to mostly responsible. They also say that there's no shortage of climatologists who regularly question elements of AGW (anthropogenic global warming) theory and realize that if someone were to find some giant flaw in the theory or models, fame and fortune (well fame, at least) would follow, like it would for any major scientific breakthrough

And it goes beyond that: many of these folks claim "big science" (climatology) can't be trusted, yet they have nearly full trust in other examples of "big science," such as pharma. It's a huge contradiction. I've been in big pharma for 27 years now and while I personally believe the industry is generally fairly trustworthy (I'm very confident my company is, just knowing how seriously everyone takes scientific rigor and ethics), there have been enough scandals and there's certainly quite a big "profit motive" in this industry (like energy, way more than for government climatologists) to at least have people question the industry.

In addition, there are people on the left who have become so strident about AGW that I believe they actually hurt the credibility of the science, especially those who use the long term threats of AGW as a weapon to try to force relatively draconian social change, when that might not be the best path forward. Personally, I believe in doing what we can to reduce consumption of fossil fuels (and production of resulting greenhouse gases) by focusing on both conservation (looking for reductions and efficiencies help companies and individuals) and a "Manhattan Project" of sorts to try to develop "clean" alternative energies to make them competitive with fossil fuels on a kwh basis. The bonus is maybe we also become a lot less dependent on foreigh oil. I also believe we can utilize energy taxes in reasonable ways to help fund things like improved infrastructure and research into alternative fuels.
 
Agreed, quite fascinating. What really puzzles me are people with strong scientific backgrounds, usually on the right, who think the relatively minor "profit motive" for mostly government scientists is enough to have them all be in on some grand scientific conspiracy, with regard to global warming, yet ignore the far larger "profit motive" of the big energy/oil companies, who underwrite much of the "skeptical" science.

I know a couple of well-respected climatologists, one of whom is quite liberal and one of whom is fairly conservative, but each of them has no doubt that GW is real and that human activities are at least partly to mostly responsible. They also say that there's no shortage of climatologists who regularly question elements of AGW (anthropogenic global warming) theory and realize that if someone were to find some giant flaw in the theory or models, fame and fortune (well fame, at least) would follow, like it would for any major scientific breakthrough

And it goes beyond that: many of these folks claim "big science" (climatology) can't be trusted, yet they have nearly full trust in other examples of "big science," such as pharma. It's a huge contradiction. I've been in big pharma for 27 years now and while I personally believe the industry is generally fairly trustworthy (I'm very confident my company is, just knowing how seriously everyone takes scientific rigor and ethics), there have been enough scandals and there's certainly quite a big "profit motive" in this industry (like energy, way more than for government climatologists) to at least have people question the industry.

In addition, there are people on the left who have become so strident about AGW that I believe they actually hurt the credibility of the science, especially those who use the long term threats of AGW as a weapon to try to force relatively draconian social change, when that might not be the best path forward. Personally, I believe in doing what we can to reduce consumption of fossil fuels (and production of resulting greenhouse gases) by focusing on both conservation (looking for reductions and efficiencies help companies and individuals) and a "Manhattan Project" of sorts to try to develop "clean" alternative energies to make them competitive with fossil fuels on a kwh basis. The bonus is maybe we also become a lot less dependent on foreigh oil. I also believe we can utilize energy taxes in reasonable ways to help fund things like improved infrastructure and research into alternative fuels.

Nice work RU848789. A cogent, well-thought out position.
I just think it comes under the heading "too little, too late."
 
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Perfect case of this very likely being a combo of "natural cycles" discussed above (very strong El Nino year) and human-induced global warming. Fair to debate how much "blame" to assign to each, but what I find ridiculous are the people questioning whether warming is really going on - and there are quite a few "deniers" who go that far.
 
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Perfect case of this very likely being a combo of "natural cycles" discussed above (very strong El Nino year) and human-induced global warming. Fair to debate how much "blame" to assign to each, but what I find ridiculous are the people questioning whether warming is really going on - and there are quite a few "deniers" who go that far.

Why are you surprised? We still have people denying evolution despite the fact that it is literally frozen in time through fossils.
 
Sea levels to rise by 3 or 4 feet by the end of the century...so, in about 84 years, more or less, islands along the coast are going to be a complete memory.

Sell your Jersey shore beach houses in the next 10 or 15 years. Values will start dropping after that. You're not going to be able to leave the house to the grandkids. Heard it here first.
 
This may be a world away, but Fiji is about to get crushed by this incredibly strong cyclone, the strongest, by far, to ever strike the islands - this could be catastrophic, especially given sea level rises over the past 50 years (which have caused at least one town to have to relocate) Unusual path, too, started out going west to east and has doubled back to the west. Sustained winds of 185 mph puts Winston in a virtual tie for the 3rd strongest storm ever, as measured by sustained winds, behind last year's Patricia (200 mph) and Allen in 1989, with 190 mph winds (tied with Gilbert, Wilma, Linda and the unnamed 1935 Florida storm).

https://weather.com/storms/hurricane/news/cyclone-winston-impacts-preps

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...y-any-measure-hurricane-patricia-is-a-monster

So what's your summary now that Winston has passed?
 
In the 90s the same people who today deny that man has had any hand in creating global warming were denying that global warming was even happening at all. One would think having been proven wrong once they wouldn't be so certain the second time around...

Who are these "same people ".More made up nonsense. We had a mini ice age a couple hundred years ago so of course the climate changes, fool. Find me one person who says the climate is static.
 
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