Excellent points made by you. How dare you!!!! You get 2+ years in a Federal Prison until they can decide how to discredit and build a case against you. See what you have done to yourself.
OT: Coming to a beach near you in NJ and NY
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Lol guilty as charged...its only common sense & logic
You have a very clever way of answering and framing your points. I was referring to your post two posts back with DeSantimonous, etc.
Who cares who pays Taibbi. Read his articles. Nobody is telling him what and how to write.
Have no idea nor do I care "who pays him" or who he told people to vote for.
I see you are in full smear campaign on Taibbi, and it is not worth discussing further with you. He missed nothing. You sound injured because your side is being attacked and exposed encouraging censorship and suppression. That's a very naive approach you have when it was explicitly shown that multiple government agencies, including security agencies were actively telling Twitter and other social media companies who and want to take down and censor. But OK. They are a private company, and it's not the government.
I think you missed the point. It jumps right past the current concerns regarding sonar surveys in order to build the wind turbines to talking about existing offshore wind turbines elsewhere and whether the end result of the sonar surveys are a risk in itself. The answer is yes.
People on land don't want wind turbines near them.
People on the coast don't want to have to see them or hear them or find dead things on their beaches because of them.
What makes anyone think the things in the ocean would be okay with them?
We could be doing nuclear.
We could be doing fossil fuel more and buy time for science to get fusion done right or hydrogen fuel cell or whatever. We don't need offshore wind turbines.
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I am interested in learning about wave and tidal energy facilities and will do some research but if you happen to have a good source you would like to refer me to it would be appreciated.
Nuclear I am good as my father-in-law was a nuclear engineer and designed and was involved in the building of several nuclear facilities. I learned a lot from him over the years.
Several good articles. Things of interest I read were:
Waves along the US coast can produce 2.64 trillion kilowatt hours of electricity.
Oceans produce twice the power of wind.
Tidal energy converts 80% of the kinetic energy to electricity in comparison to 30% for coal.
Tidal and wave are much more expensive currently to develop than wind, but the energy production is much greater.
Canada has greater ability to produce tidal and wind power than almost everywhere else in the world. Think Bay of Fundy.
Four early feasibility studies for large-scale tidal power plants were conducted in the United States and Canada between 1924 and 1977 by the U.S. Power Commission, Nova Scotia Light and Power, and the U.S. and Canadian governments, respectively. All were focused on specific geographic locations around border areas between Maine and Canada. While conclusions varied regarding economic feasibility, they did not yield significant progress.
A large tidal barrage was built in La Rance, France in 1966 and still operates today with 240 megawatts (MW) of electricity generation capacity, the largest in the world until 2011, when an array with 254 MW capacity opened in South Korea.
In the past two decades, the industry has turned toward in-stream tidal energy generation, where a single device or groups (or arrays) of devices are placed within the tidal stream. The European Marine Energy Centre, established in 2003, is the world’s largest facility for testing and demonstrating wave and tidal technologies in real sea conditions. The facility, which has grid-connected test sites for larger prototypes and scale test sites for smaller devices, has facilitated testing of more tidal energy devices than any other site in the world.
I am continuing to read to see if the construction being used for wind turbines could ultimately be used for the facilities needed for waves and tidal power.
It also looks like the process needed to build wind turbines would also happen to build tidal and wave facilities- that is sonar mapping of the ocean floor.
If my father-in-law was still alive, I would be on the phone with him now because I am certain he would have researched this and could "dumb it down" for me. He would have been thrilled to get on the ground floor of designing and building anything new and challenging.
Waves along the US coast can produce 2.64 trillion kilowatt hours of electricity.
Oceans produce twice the power of wind.
Tidal energy converts 80% of the kinetic energy to electricity in comparison to 30% for coal.
Tidal and wave are much more expensive currently to develop than wind, but the energy production is much greater.
Canada has greater ability to produce tidal and wind power than almost everywhere else in the world. Think Bay of Fundy.
Four early feasibility studies for large-scale tidal power plants were conducted in the United States and Canada between 1924 and 1977 by the U.S. Power Commission, Nova Scotia Light and Power, and the U.S. and Canadian governments, respectively. All were focused on specific geographic locations around border areas between Maine and Canada. While conclusions varied regarding economic feasibility, they did not yield significant progress.
A large tidal barrage was built in La Rance, France in 1966 and still operates today with 240 megawatts (MW) of electricity generation capacity, the largest in the world until 2011, when an array with 254 MW capacity opened in South Korea.
In the past two decades, the industry has turned toward in-stream tidal energy generation, where a single device or groups (or arrays) of devices are placed within the tidal stream. The European Marine Energy Centre, established in 2003, is the world’s largest facility for testing and demonstrating wave and tidal technologies in real sea conditions. The facility, which has grid-connected test sites for larger prototypes and scale test sites for smaller devices, has facilitated testing of more tidal energy devices than any other site in the world.
I am continuing to read to see if the construction being used for wind turbines could ultimately be used for the facilities needed for waves and tidal power.
It also looks like the process needed to build wind turbines would also happen to build tidal and wave facilities- that is sonar mapping of the ocean floor.
If my father-in-law was still alive, I would be on the phone with him now because I am certain he would have researched this and could "dumb it down" for me. He would have been thrilled to get on the ground floor of designing and building anything new and challenging.
Good article on the problem (cost) with moving forward
climate.mit.edu
Why don’t we use tidal power more?
Tidal power is a promising renewable energy source, but production costs, a limited number of suitable locations, and technological challenges hinder its expansion.
Why isn’t tidal power more common?
“The fundamental question is one of economics,” says Brian Polagye, Associate Professor of Mechanical Engineering and Director of the Pacific Marine Energy Center at the University of Washington. Because of the early stage of the technology, tidal power is an expensive source of energy: according to a 2019 study, commercial-scale tidal energy is estimated to cost $130-$280 per megawatt-hour,1 compared to $20 per megawatt-hour for wind.2 High upfront costs of building plants, expenses associated with maintaining machinery that can survive corrosive seawater, and the pricey engineering work that goes into them make up a significant portion of that cost discrepancy. Polagye adds that the supply chain for tidal power also isn't yet capable of providing necessary components and technologies at scale to make this energy source and, as of now, "everything’s pretty custom.” In fact, the market discrepancy between tidal and other, more mature, renewable energy systems is actually growing because the cost of generation from wind and solar generation continues to drop.
As far as I know (and I've looked) there are currently no windmills off the coast of NJ, so associating offshore windmills with the recent uptick in deaths of dolphins and other cetaceans is simply ludicrous, as is the meme. Also, most offshore windmills are anchored to the sea floor, although floating units, moored to the ocean floor are starting to be deployed.
I also have no idea why you would doubt the work that NOAA has done on the impacts of sound surveys on marine life - they're a govt research arm with countless scientists dedicated to protecting marine life that also investigates strandings/deaths and has concluded that the biggest risk to whales is boat strikes:
"Of the (dead) whales examined, about 40 percent had evidence of human interaction, either ship strike or entanglement. Vessel strikes and entanglement in fishing gear are the greatest human threats to large whales."
Given that, I'm surprised there's not an outcry to ban charter boat fishing and commercial/recreational boating, in order to save the whales. Not really - as I've said before, this is mostly about people not liking the aesthetics of offshore windmills and looking for any excuse to scuttle such projects.
Also, as I posted earlier, it strains credulity to think that offshore windmills have any major role to play in deaths of these animals, given that they've been operating off the coast of Europe for decades and only recently has there been an uptick there, too, in such deaths.
https://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/new-...nt?,mortalities and currently ongoing surveys.
https://acousticstoday.org/wp-conte...-from-Offshore-Wind-Farms-Jennifer-Amaral.pdf
I remember years ago somewhere off the Jersey coast, a company was testing a wave generating power system. If I recall correctly, it was a series of donut shaped cement rings attached to each other that generated electricity from wave action. Cables would be connected to these cement donuts delivering the power to a on shore power station. It was built on a very small scale for testing and for trying to regulate the power depending on severe to mild wave action. At the very least, you would think the power generated would be more consistent than wind. To humour those that attacked with sarcasm thinking they were cute, no whales were harmed in this test.
He said it in defense of a meme about Murphy killing whales.
We could do some of those other things, each with its own problems, but they decided on wind power. It's not like it hasn't been done before.
The best argument against wind is its lack of production capacity, not maybe it's killing whales before being installed.
I don't even think it runs as deep as aesthetics with some of these guys.
More like, "Demz like green power so I hate it. It's stoopid."
Like the assholes who drive around "coal rolling" cyclists in their trash mobiles.
Look I know you crawl up the ass of NOAA and like you said they are a GOVT agency. Sorry I do not take anything the govt says as fact. Anyone is easily bought for a buck.. They govt deceived the citizens since our inception. Have u ever gone by the windmills by the Borgata. They are very loud when spinning that will 100% translate below the water especially more so if they are floating versions. Facts sound travels 5X further under water than above water more likely louder as well. If you are that nonsenically up the ass of NOAA good for you. Windmill farms will 1000000000% affect aquatic life.
The last time I checked these deals are worth Billions & Billions of $$ up & down the east coast. I'm sure there is enough of those $$$ going into the right pockets to make all these farms reality
Government and private entities have deceived citizens many times.
Are there any projects that you believe are so pure that they were or are worth doing?
Or is everything ever done so tainted by billions and billions of dollars or it’s equivalent at the time that we should go back and live our lives to a time before fire.
I would be interested in who or what person or organization you find so pure that you would accept their opinion.
Several people have now responded to your point about actual windmills when in use by pretending you were saying non-yet-built windmills are causing whale and dolphin deaths.
Why do they do this instead of just addressing the point you make.. that when they are built there will be issues with them.. obvious issues to consider... why?
Believe me, no one is more sympathetic to marine habitats than me.
The net effect of offshore structures is ALWAYS a positive for marine ecosystems. Such ecosystems are fundamentally based on structure, whether it's rocks, reefs, wrecks or towers - whether it be oil, gas or wind. These things provide a foothold on which entire ecosystems develop and thrive, from algae to apex predators.
The only real environmental consideration, then, is the risk of catastrophic event. With oil rigs you have spills. Gas rigs don't pose much of a hazard because marine gas seeps are actually pretty common. Wind poses zero catastrophic risk to the environment. The mapping sonar isn't killing whales - there hasn't been a survey vessel out there for months. Whales are killed by ships and fishing nets. Those are reasonable battles for the pro-whale factions to wage.
Oddly, even though it's been mentioned numerous times in this thread, not one of the people saying we should "investigate" the wind farm construction has - not once - suggested we take a serious look at stray fishing gear. It does tend to make one wonder about their sincerity.
When you can't win an argument on the merits, cry conspiracy involving bribery and fraud or some other dumb logic and insult people to boot. I also provided a link from an academic group, but I guess they're in on it too. Do you think all of NOAA is on the take or just the marine sciences folks? I'm guessing you occasionally consume their weather forecasts/info without thinking too much about it, though (every forecast made relies on NOAA data and models).
Also, if you had any knowledge about sound wave transmission in different media, other than what you probably found from a 10 second Google search, you'd realize that transmission of windmill sound from the air to the water will be very localized (mostly downward), due to the "critical angle" beyond which the sound will simply be reflected off of the water's surface, as per the graphic below. There's a huge difference between doing a Google search when one doesn't understand the underlying science vs. when one does.
So way less than 100% will translate below the water, meaning that significant sound wave propagation across the boundary layer into the water will very likely be limited to the immediate area of the windmill. Doesn't mean there's zero risk to marine life, but windmills are very unlikely to be a major sound risk. Also, as an aside, sound travels about 5X faster, not further, in water vs. air; the distance in water can be far, far longer, depending on water temperature, pressure and depth
https://dosits.org/science/movement/how-does-sound-propagate-from-air-into-water/
Here is a list of all the endangered animals that can and have halted construction projects in NJ. You guys should work to get whales and dolphins added to the list. I am sure when you read about some construction project being denied because it was a salamander's habitat like a pipeline through the Pinelands you all were 100% supportive of the environmentalists who lead the charge.
dep.nj.gov
NJDEP| Fish & Wildlife | New Jersey's Endangered and Threatened Wildlife
The lists of New Jersey's endangered and threatened wildlife species are maintained by the Division of Fish and Wildlife's Endangered and Nongame Species Program (ENSP).
dep.nj.gov
FWIW, large ships transmit sound through the water on a much, much larger scale than windmills. You'd be shocked at the distances at which passive surveillance sonar can pick up something like a cruise ship. Hundreds of miles, easily.
I was under the impression that all the charter fishing boats use some type of sonar to improve their customers fishing experience. Is that sonar different than the sonar that our "environmentalists" are saying is the cause of whale deaths?
Can you actually read the thread before posting? RUFinally posted the stupid meme with dead dolphins and Murphy, which I dismissed, because, well, it's stupid, since there are no offshore windmills in this area, and then GreenKnight replied to my post challenging my dismissal, implying he didn't think the meme was dumb. And while also he made a number of points that had nothing to do with the meme, I think I addressed them pretty well.
Good to see that we're saying a lot of the same things...and yes, at the end of the day, the vast majority of people with the pitchforks wailing about windmills and whales have never cared about any other environmental issue until now. Sincerity is in short supply with most of them.
Actually real big on that I follow on utube a group of dudes in Nambia that free seals from commercial & non commercial fishing nets, lines and hooks wrapped around them. It's a huge problem over 1 million marine animals a year die from it
Stop the presses. I’ve solved the case. The cause of the whale deaths is (can I have a drumroll please)…
apnews.com
I mean sure, it’s pure conjecture, just like the pure conjecture about wind turbines being the cause. Or aliens. Or human sexual activity (the ban is still in effect people, so don’t even think about having any sex until it’s conclusively proven that sex isn’t the cause).
The point is, there’s no proof it’s not any of a thousand things causing whale deaths. So the only logical thing to do is ban humanity entirely until such time as we have absolute proof that it’s not human activity killing these innocent sea creatures.
A 5,000-mile seaweed belt is headed toward Florida
WASHINGTON (AP) — A 5,000-mile seaweed belt lurking in the Atlantic Ocean is expected in the next few months to wash onto beaches in the Caribbean Sea, South Florida, and the Yucatán Peninsula in Mexico.
apnews.com
I mean sure, it’s pure conjecture, just like the pure conjecture about wind turbines being the cause. Or aliens. Or human sexual activity (the ban is still in effect people, so don’t even think about having any sex until it’s conclusively proven that sex isn’t the cause).
The point is, there’s no proof it’s not any of a thousand things causing whale deaths. So the only logical thing to do is ban humanity entirely until such time as we have absolute proof that it’s not human activity killing these innocent sea creatures.
If the dolphin meme{ purely meant as a joke to show how soft Liberals are}got under the soft underbelly, this will pop the main vein no doubt. It was ok to post $hit loads of in most cases funny memes at The Donald, but this $hitshow is off limits by the MSM. But I'll have you know, the World is watching and we are looked at as a joke under the current Gang That Can't Shoot Straight. Free countries being attacked or on the verge of it. I'll add this, Trump is off the rails and since many in the GOP don't have the nads to berate his actions, I hope the Democratic witch hunt succeeds and will give Republicans a candidate that actually could win in 2024. It would be pretty funny watching Dems doing the dirty work for Republicans.
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Saudi Gov't controlled TV lol.
Gee, it couldn't be because their butt boy lost an election.
I'm betting you found the SNL skits about Trump funny as hell by that movie set Killer. So I'm guessing since you don't watch Fox "fake" News, you have never seen the actual event the nitwit did that prompted Saudi's version of SNL did?
When they planned 9/11 was he the butt boy? Nice try, thanks for playing. Go sell crazy somewhere else. See, didn't take long for Liberals to get upset.
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You posted something from Saudi Gov't controlled TV and yes, they have an agenda.
You say that as if our very own mainstream media doesn't have an agenda. At least admit that. Saudi Arabia has been a long time "friend",{yea hello}, long before Trump came around, yet they trained and financed 9/11. Wait you heard it here first folks, knightfan7 is proposing a Saudi Arabia election collusion conspiracy, Maybe they get Hillary to fund another fake dossier again.
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You said the "World" is watching and we are a joke using Saudi state controlled media as an example. The saudi's have never been more than an ally of convenience.You say that as if our very own mainstream media doesn't have an agenda. At least admit that. Saudi Arabia has been a long time "friend",{yea hello}, long before Trump came around, yet they trained and financed 9/11. Wait you heard it here first folks, knightfan7 is proposing a Saudi Arabia election collusion conspiracy, Maybe they get Hillary to fund another fake dossier again.
Your politics are showing. Not shocked.
If something is funny it’s funny no matter who it is making fun of.
As are yours. You really think we aren't a laughing stock around the world? You keep believing that. The View is strong with this one. From the very beginning countries have noticed. From the beginning in 2021 right on to the G7 in 2022. Yes the World is laughing. Britain, Australia and many others, hardly just the Saudi's. https://www.dailywire.com/news/foreign-media-skewer-joe-biden-as-barely-cogent-bizarre
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It isn't my politics to say the Saudi's aren't a true ally. They ally with anyone for the right price and right now the US isn't paying it apparently.
I 100% get that part about the Saudi's and shame on the fact we've been in bed with them for so long, the POS that they are, but you haven't addressed the fact Biden is a joke worldwide.
You have a very clever way of answering and framing your points. I was referring to your post two posts back with DeSantimonous, etc.
Who cares who pays Taibbi. Read his articles. Nobody is telling him what and how to write.
Have no idea nor do I care "who pays him" or who he told people to vote for.
I see you are in full smear campaign on Taibbi, and it is not worth discussing further with you. He missed nothing. You sound injured because your side is being attacked and exposed encouraging censorship and suppression. That's a very naive approach you have when it was explicitly shown that multiple government agencies, including security agencies were actively telling Twitter and other social media companies who and want to take down and censor. But OK. They are a private company, and it's not the government.
Literally Elon gave him tweets but none show anything you claim.
The security agencies didn't tell Twitter or anyone else to do anything.
The only person who did that was Trump. That is what you and Taibbi deliberately miss.
Your grasp on the facts here seems tethered to the fact that your side is the one destroying the First Amendment.
Your side has a technique: Every accusation is a confession. Falsely claim the FBI and political opponents (even though the FBI chief was appointed by your side) is ordering Twitter posts removed to distract from the fact that your side was doing it, banning books, firing principals for teaching about the David statue, etc
And let's not forget, in the greatest irony, they gave 2BN to a guy who never held a job from a non-family member right after their patron left office. But the same people OK with that cry about Hunter.
Like I said, every accusation from them is a confession.
Falsely claim the FBI is limiting free speech because you're banning books and AP class and statues of David.
Claim others' children take money from China when your idols' children take Chinese money while in office.
Falsely claim your opponents are killing whales when your idol tried to drill for oil in the same places.
If they're accusing you of doing something it's because they're doing it.
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