OT: Eternal Lawn Care Thread

[Knight Shift]

$5 bucks a square ft.? Why not just hardwood floor your garage while you're at it. 😁

Is it sacrilege to a mason to cover concrete? Our garage floor looks like crap. The previous owner must have had the world's worst mechanic, because half the floor is covered with oil stains. Tried several different ways to clean the floor up to no avail.

The diamondplate racetrack tiles are $3.79/sf. That may sound like a lot. But I got a quote for an epoxy coating, and it was $200 (about 10%) higher. The nice thing about the tiles is you can replace ones that get stained or damaged. With an epoxy coating, if an area gets stained or damaged, you have to start over.

Can you quote me to do the lick and stick cultured stone ground flat on my garage floor?

 

[koleszar]

Is it sacrilege to a mason to cover concrete? Our garage floor looks like crap. The previous owner must have had the world's worst mechanic, because half the floor is covered with oil stains. Tried several different ways to clean the floor up to no avail.

Can you quote me to do the lick and stick cultured stone ground flat on my garage floor?

Hey once you've paid for it and I'm gone(out of sight) it's yours. Just don't let me see it. Hell, I've had people wanting to put their names in it, said sure we'll do it for you otherwise it'll look like sh*t.

Sure I'll get you a quote on that. Might be a little bumpy though and make sure you're current on your insurance premiums.

 

[Knight Shift]

Hey once you've paid for it and I'm gone(out of sight) it's yours. Just don't let me see it. Hell, I've had people wanting to put their names in it, said sure we'll do it for you otherwise it'll look like sh*t.

Sure I'll get you a quote on that. Might be a little bumpy though and make sure you're current on your insurance premiums.

Well, you made me think--I can get these from Home Depot for less than half the cost ($1.78/sf):

 

[koleszar]

Well, you made me think--I can get these from Home Depot for less than half the cost ($1.78/sf):

Go with the racetrack tiles. You'll kill yourself every time you go in or out of the garage with that trip step,

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

Shout out to @phs73rc77gsm83 and @BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap

You may recall that I literally firebombed holes in my lawn trying to get rid of some POA this spring. I overseeded several weeks ago. My lawn is all tall turf fescue and I used the same blend. I have patches of lighter green grass interspersed with the dark emerald green lawn. These patches do not look like some of the less mature seeded areas that have sprouted seedling. To me, it just looks like TTF that does not have the same color as the rest of the lawn. Any thoughts?

Tagged bellyfull so that he can admire the hints of clover interspersed in my lawn-I like the clover!!!

That's a fine looking lawn. I'm a big fan of diverse species. So are your soil microbes.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

Yes, I do a fast release fertilizer around thanksgiving or a bit before. November 15 is technically the last day for NJ. Urea 46-0-0 is great but you won’t find it in a box store. A high nitrogen fast release is fine.

Why a mega dose of N in late fall?

 

[Knight Shift]

That's a fine looking lawn. I'm a big fan of diverse species. So are your soil microbes.

That patch is very shady (like the homeowner) and wet (like the backs of the homeowner's ears). I planted that lawn from scratch in the fall of 2017 using a TTF blend from Hogan Seed out of Tennessee-fine people and fine seed--they wear Scarlet shoes there too.

 

[RU Golfer]

Is it sacrilege to a mason to cover concrete? Our garage floor looks like crap. The previous owner must have had the world's worst mechanic, because half the floor is covered with oil stains. Tried several different ways to clean the floor up to no avail.

The diamondplate racetrack tiles are $3.79/sf. That may sound like a lot. But I got a quote for an epoxy coating, and it was $200 (about 10%) higher. The nice thing about the tiles is you can replace ones that get stained or damaged. With an epoxy coating, if an area gets stained or damaged, you have to start over.

Can you quote me to do the lick and stick cultured stone ground flat on my garage floor?

I got everything from Benjamin Moore. Did the acid wash and then did the epoxy coat paint and have no issues. To be full transparent the only marks in my floor are where my lift comes down and the lift hits the floor.. other than that no issues and everything wipes up no issues

 

[DJ Spanky]

@phs73rc77gsm83 any suggestions on this:

Okay, so 3-4 weeks ago we raked out the area in our back that I had rescued from the forest and laid down some grass seed over the whole area, bare or not. Now the biggest issue I have is since we got all that rain last September (2019), that area got overrun with moss. A lot of it came out when we raked it, that was the primary purpose for doing so, but there's still some there. What can I use to get rid of it? I had someone recommend putting down lime as one possibility since, according to them, moss likes acidic soil. What other recommendations should I consider?

 

[RU Golfer]

@phs73rc77gsm83 any suggestions on this:

Moss does like acidic soil but will grow perfectly fine in alkaline soil as well. So just because you see moss does not necessarily mean you have acidic soil. I had some moss in a shady area before I was able to get grass established and my ph in that area was spot on (6.5). You can pick up a soil tester and see what your ph is or have a soil test done to find out. If your ph is low (acidic) you can add lime to make it more alkaline.

I killed the moss with the following product (I used the liquid)

Moss Out!®

Moss Out!® is the perfect solution to kill moss commonly found on lawns, roofs, walks and structures.

www.mossout.com

I then used a combination of Johnathan Green "Shady Nook" and their Black Beauty "Sun and Shade" grass seeds and the moss has not returned since the grass established.

 

[phs73rc77gsm83]

Why a mega dose of N in late fall?

The overwhelming number of University turf programs state that fall fertilization is the most important season, and that the late fall fertilization is very important for root growth, density, and disease resistance. The late fall application is generally several weeks after the average first frost in a location. Please see the information and link below from Purdue.Similar information on cool season grass fertilization positions can be found at other turf programs.

“Cool-season turfgrass species should be fertilized mainly in the autumn. September and November are the two best times to fertilize a lawn in Indiana. Fall nitrogen promotes good root development, enhances storage of energy reserves, and extends color retention in cool-season lawns. Most of the benefits from late fall nitrogen will be seen next spring and summer with earlier green-up, improved turf density, and improved tolerance to spring diseases such as red thread and pink patch, and reduced weeds....
The late-fall or November application timing should be near or after the last mowing of the year, but while lawn is still green. Typically, there may be a month or more between your last mowing and the time the grass turns brown or goes under snow cover. Generally the first few weeks of November are when to apply. Earlier Purdue research suggests that the nitrogen must be taken-up by the plant before winter to be most effective. Therefore, a quick-release (or soluble nitrogen source) such as urea, ammonium nitrate, calcium nitrate, or ammonium sulfate is most effective. The target application rate for this November fertilization should be 0.5 to 1.0 lbs. N/1000 square feet.”

Fall Fertilization

Cool-season turfgrass species should be fertilized mainly in the autumn. September and November are the two best times to fertilize a lawn in Indiana. Fall nitrogen promotes good root development, enhances storage of energy reserves, and extends color retention in cool-season lawns. Most of the bene

turf.purdue.edu

 

[phs73rc77gsm83]

@phs73rc77gsm83 any suggestions on this:

FS426: Moss in Lawns (Rutgers NJAES)

FS426,

njaes.rutgers.edu

I agree with RUgolfer. I’d get a soil test but the attached link from Rutgers discusses some causes and solutions.

 

[Postman_1]

Im still cutting my lawn every 7-10 days ugh. Grass is growing like it's summer time. This weather is crazy. Dont get me wrong its beautifull out but it's November 8th. Let it feel like November 8th.

 

[BigRnj]

It’s time to get a 2021 thread going (I saw lawn supplies and fertilizer in Costco today).

My lawn needs help, and I need advice. I usually have crabgrass, dandelion, chickweed, clover, and plantains. A good amount of shade and some bare spots. Where should I start? Would following a Scott’s turf builder cycle help, or is there something more basic/effective I should start with? I didn’t think I could put down a pre-emergent for the crabgrass if I need to seed. Just hoping to get started right this year.

 

[rufan3860]

Yes, I do a fast release fertilizer around thanksgiving or a bit before. November 15 is technically the last day for NJ. Urea 46-0-0 is great but you won’t find it in a box store. A high nitrogen fast release is fine.

I did this and ended up with gray snow mold. Apparently November is too late to apply Urea. Some online sources suggest September.

 

[phs73rc77gsm83]

I did this and ended up with gray snow mold. Apparently November is too late to apply Urea. Some online sources suggest September.

I think you’ll be fine. The November nitrogen likely has nothing to do with the snow mold. The grass should outgrow the snow mold once it emerges from dormancy.

 

[VW Knight]

It’s time to get a 2021 thread going (I saw lawn supplies and fertilizer in Costco today).

My lawn needs help, and I need advice. I usually have crabgrass, dandelion, chickweed, clover, and plantains. A good amount of shade and some bare spots. Where should I start? Would following a Scott’s turf builder cycle help, or is there something more basic/effective I should start with? I didn’t think I could put down a pre-emergent for the crabgrass if I need to seed. Just hoping to get started right this year.

Have a SiteOne nearby? There’s a product you can put down 2 weeks after first germination that’s safe. It’s 19-0-6 fert, dimension, and confront. Scott’s is crap btw

 

[miket007]

I told myself I was done with Scott's products and have been looking at some of the southern fertilizers but am a bit concerned since I live in central Delaware. Believe i'll be trying Snapshot 2.5 TG granular pre emergent herbicide in a couple weeks!

 

[rufeelinit]

I am trying to prevent a crabgrass infestation this year. Heard about Lesco as a preventative that may require two treatments with the first needing to be applied pretty soon once the temp increases to an average of around 50-55. I have tended to use the Scott four season products but like most products it seems everything need to be applied perfectly otherwise there seems to be a condition as to why it might not have worked effectively. Thought I would try something else this year.

 

[phs73rc77gsm83]

There are many posts in this thread about pre emergents. I personally use Dimension in spray form, which goes down when soil temps are about 50-55, when the forsythia bloom is a good indicator of when to put it down. The rate will determine how long it will last but generally 4 or 5 months, then another application. Another product, Barricade, lasts a bit longer. Please look up thread. You can get these online at a site such as Do My Own Pest Control. The Scott’s products are generally more expensive, though the one with Dimension has the same Active ingredient (dithiopyr) as what I mentioned. There are other posters who firmly believe in not using these products—there is no right or wrong and to each their own. If you use any of these products, read and follow the label.

 

[RU Golfer]

Question for @phs73rc77gsm83 as the spring is coming upon us I have been in conversations with friends about lawns...I am a a believer in Tenacity with a Surfactant and blue lazer mixture for stubborn weed control. A friend of mine was talking about Quinclorac do you have any experience with the product? What are your thoughts, how would you compare it to Tenacity?

 

[phs73rc77gsm83]

Question for @phs73rc77gsm83 as the spring is coming upon us I have been in conversations with friends about lawns...I am a a believer in Tenacity with a Surfactant and blue lazer mixture for stubborn weed control. A friend of mine was talking about Quinclorac do you have any experience with the product? What are your thoughts, how would you compare it to Tenacity?

Tenacity (active ingredient is Mesotrione) is an excellent product that I have used for years. It is essentially a pre-emergent with some post-emergent effectiveness. A great thing about tenacity is that you can put it down when you plant grass seed and it will give you about 30 days of weed control while allowing your grass seed to germinate. You can then do another application if needed or you can go with a stronger pre-emergent such as Dimension. Tenacity is particularly useful against Poa annua, nimblewill, undesired bent grass, and other species. A fall application of tenacity will really help against next year’s Poa annua. Tenacity has some post-emergent effectiveness for immature crab grass but that’s not it’s strength.

I use Dimension when the forsythia bloom and again in several months if I’m not doing a fall reseed. See the label for rates and coverage. I haven’t had a crab grass problem in decades.

Quninclorac is essentially a post-emergent product that will control crab grass after it germinates (particularly new weeds, not so much fully mature crab grass.)

So to control crab grass I’d use Dimension or Prodiamide as a pre-emergent. Use Tenacity when seeding and to control Poa annua and other weeds as per the label. Quinclorac is good if you’re trying to kill already existing crab grass and other weeds a per the label.

 

[RUDead]

In the fall, a friend of mine asked him to take him on a regenerative agriculture journey. Actually he just asked for help with his lawn but after talking he is all in on the journey. 😀 He had already stopped using synthetic chemicals a few years ago, but had construction on his house and they left a mess. He planted grass in the spring but it didn't take too well because of heavy clay, severely compacted soil.

We started in November by setting up his compost bin to be as diverse as we could make it. Besides leaves and food scraps we added quality soil from a nearby forested area as well as many different types of mushroom rotted logs as we could find. The goal is to produce biologically diverse compost and use liquid compost extracts to improve the soil. We will also be over seeding with white clover to help with the process.

My hope is I can take everything I've learned in the last 10 years and fix his yard in one season.

 

[oliverm]

Voles ripped up my lawn after the snow melted. Is there anything that can be done to repair or try to prevent them from further destroying?

 

[rufan3860]

In the fall, a friend of mine asked him to take him on a regenerative agriculture journey. Actually he just asked for help with his lawn but after talking he is all in on the journey. 😀 He had already stopped using synthetic chemicals a few years ago, but had construction on his house and they left a mess. He planted grass in the spring but it didn't take too well because of heavy clay, severely compacted soil.

We started in November by setting up his compost bin to be as diverse as we could make it. Besides leaves and food scraps we added quality soil from a nearby forested area as well as many different types of mushroom rotted logs as we could find. The goal is to produce biologically diverse compost and use liquid compost extracts to improve the soil. We will also be over seeding with white clover to help with the process.

My hope is I can take everything I've learned in the last 10 years and fix his yard in one season.

Could you please explain liquid compost extract a little further?

 

[RUDead]

Voles ripped up my lawn after the snow melted. Is there anything that can be done to repair or try to prevent them from further destroying?

Put mouse traps in their trails. That's the best way to get rid of them.

 

[phs73rc77gsm83]

Voles ripped up my lawn after the snow melted. Is there anything that can be done to repair or try to prevent them from further destroying?

I don’t have experience or problems with voles but this could help.

https://njaes.rutgers.edu/pubs/download.php?strPubID=FS399

 

[RUDead]

Could you please explain liquid compost extract a little further?

Basically you are taking compost using some type of strainer (think of a tea bag) and extracting the nutrients and biology into a bucket. It will be black water and you can dilute it further to get more coverage. You can make compost tea as well but that is more complicated and should be used on the plant not on the soil.

Here is a much better explanation/instructions than I could give you:

Making Compost Extracts - Catalyst Magazine

One pound of compost becomes a feast for the whole garden. Wow! I have waaaaaaaay too much high-grade compost!” said no gardener ever. Generating that much rich, dark garden goodness evades the majority of even the highest level soil celebrity. Base-level compost has plenty of organic matter...

catalystmagazine.net

 

[rurichdog]

Step 0 this year will be raking up all the weeping willow leaves my neighbor's tree dumped on my lawn after I had already "finished" for the year 🤬

 

[BigWill]

Voles ripped up my lawn after the snow melted. Is there anything that can be done to repair or try to prevent them from further destroying?

.22 shorts ?

 

[BigWill]

Do any of you fanatics use a lawn service ? And your experience/thoughts about them ?

I admit that I am too lazy to go crazy about a lawn, but would pay someone else to be so..

FYI, all snow should be gawn by tomorrow noon on my and Matt's two acres of lawns.

 

[phs73rc77gsm83]

Do any of you fanatics use a lawn service ? And your experience/thoughts about them ?

I admit that I am too lazy to go crazy about a lawn, but would pay someone else to be so..

FYI, all snow should be gawn by tomorrow noon on my and Matt's two acres of lawns.

I don’t use a service, I do everything myself. I know people that use some of the well known services and there are many horror stories out there. That’s not to say there aren’t some good services and experiences. I have one neighbor who uses a landscape service owned by a guy who graduated from RU turf school and he has done a great job. I have a few other neighbors that use national companies and I’m not impressed. I have a neighbor that hired someone to seed their back lawn after putting in a pool. They used terrible seed and did it at the wrong time. It had to be redone.Like so many things, it just depends on how interested you are and what your goals are. I think if you hire someone it would be worth spending some time to understand what products they are using, when, rates, etc.

 

[Cincinnati Kid]

Tenacity (active ingredient is Mesotrione) is an excellent product that I have used for years. It is essentially a pre-emergent with some post-emergent effectiveness. A great thing about tenacity is that you can put it down when you plant grass seed and it will give you about 30 days of weed control while allowing your grass seed to germinate. You can then do another application if needed or you can go with a stronger pre-emergent such as Dimension. Tenacity is particularly useful against Poa annua, nimblewill, undesired bent grass, and other species. A fall application of tenacity will really help against next year’s Poa annua. Tenacity has some post-emergent effectiveness for immature crab grass but that’s not it’s strength.

I use Dimension when the forsythia bloom and again in several months if I’m not doing a fall reseed. See the label for rates and coverage. I haven’t had a crab grass problem in decades.

Quninclorac is essentially a post-emergent product that will control crab grass after it germinates (particularly new weeds, not so much fully mature crab grass.)

So to control crab grass I’d use Dimension or Prodiamide as a pre-emergent. Use Tenacity when seeding and to control Poa annua and other weeds as per the label. Quinclorac is good if you’re trying to kill already existing crab grass and other weeds a per the label.

By using Dimension every year, are you concerned about the crab grass building up a type of immunity? I try to rotate between Dimension and Barricade every few years.

 

[phs73rc77gsm83]

By using Dimension every year, are you concerned about the crab grass building up a type of immunity? I try to rotate between Dimension and Barricade every few years.

Kid, you make an excellent point, as always. I diligently rotate my fungicides but really should do more with rotating pre-emergents. I think Dimension, Prodiamine (Barricade), and Pendimethalin all are mitosis inhibitors with the same WSSA and HRAC codes so I’m not sure how much rotating within the group helps against resistance. Tenacity is a different group with different codes but it has other purposes and shorter coverage as you know. There are a few pre-emergents with different Mechanisims off Action but not a lot that I’m aware of. Maybe some Cellulose Inhibitors such as Gallery? Thanks for reminding me of this. I’ll have to rethink and research this.

 

[RU Golfer]

CBIs do not stop seeds from germinating, but once root growth starts the weed dies when the roots come in contact with the CBI...I have no idea how it works.

 

[phs73rc77gsm83]

CBIs do not stop seeds from germinating, but once root growth starts the weed dies when the roots come in contact with the CBI...I have no idea how it works.

I think there are some more technical and detailed descriptions but here is a partial explanation. Beyond me!

Weed Control Herbicide Cellulose Biosynthesis Inhibitors

Weed Control Herbicide Cellulose Biosynthesis Inhibitors

www.greenindustrypros.com

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

In the fall, a friend of mine asked him to take him on a regenerative agriculture journey. Actually he just asked for help with his lawn but after talking he is all in on the journey. 😀 He had already stopped using synthetic chemicals a few years ago, but had construction on his house and they left a mess. He planted grass in the spring but it didn't take too well because of heavy clay, severely compacted soil.

We started in November by setting up his compost bin to be as diverse as we could make it. Besides leaves and food scraps we added quality soil from a nearby forested area as well as many different types of mushroom rotted logs as we could find. The goal is to produce biologically diverse compost and use liquid compost extracts to improve the soil. We will also be over seeding with white clover to help with the process.

My hope is I can take everything I've learned in the last 10 years and fix his yard in one season.

Awesome! Best of luck. Keep us posted.
FYI... Ryegrass roots grow deeeeeeeep (in healthy soil). This might help your compaction .

 

[Postman_1]

So I had Lawn Doctor the last few years. I spent around $475 for my property. The lawn did improve but not $475 improve. They did get rid of the dandelion about 95% and crabgrass about 60% and a few other weeds. I decided to cancel them this year as I still had some crabgrass, ground ivy and whatever weed is in the attached pic. So I'm wondering what I can use for the upcoming spring, summer, fall? I heard negative and positive stuff about Scotts. Any suggestions is appreciated.

 

[koleszar]

In the fall, a friend of mine asked him to take him on a regenerative agriculture journey. Actually he just asked for help with his lawn but after talking he is all in on the journey. 😀 He had already stopped using synthetic chemicals a few years ago, but had construction on his house and they left a mess. He planted grass in the spring but it didn't take too well because of heavy clay, severely compacted soil.

We started in November by setting up his compost bin to be as diverse as we could make it. Besides leaves and food scraps we added quality soil from a nearby forested area as well as many different types of mushroom rotted logs as we could find. The goal is to produce biologically diverse compost and use liquid compost extracts to improve the soil. We will also be over seeding with white clover to help with the process.

My hope is I can take everything I've learned in the last 10 years and fix his yard in one season.

We compost all our farm animal poop and hay. Throw in wood ash from the wood stoves, lime, some crappy dirt and fish emulsion, cover with clear plastic. turnover with the front loader 2 or 3 times and in a year 5 to 6 yds. of top soil. We have to constantly fill in the fruit orchard and areas with this nutrient rich stuff. Pastures grow like crazy with it.

We fertilize the pastures with fish emulsion. I swear by this for organic fertilizer, smells like fish for a day or two but it really works well. I made an organic tea once with hog poop, found fish emulsion much easier. I'm only allowed to use organic measures in the livestock and orchard areas. Pasture mix has all type of beneficial grasses for the soil, Rye, Clover, Timothy and orchard grass.

 

[phs73rc77gsm83]

So I had Lawn Doctor the last few years. I spent around $475 for my property. The lawn did improve but not $475 improve. They did get rid of the dandelion about 95% and crabgrass about 60% and a few other weeds. I decided to cancel them this year as I still had some crabgrass, ground ivy and whatever weed is in the attached pic. So I'm wondering what I can use for the upcoming spring, summer, fall? I heard negative and positive stuff about Scotts. Any suggestions is appreciated.

Looks like Spurge to me. Use a pre-emergent such as Dimensionwhen forsythia bloom, use a post emergent with sulfentrazone as the active ingredient (Ortho Nutsedge Killer, Dismiss, others) if it still comes up. Try to pull it too as you see it. It is a very prolific seeder and could be more than one battle. The Dimension will block germination of crab grass and dandelion s too. Ground ivy can be controlled by Triclopyr (Ortho CCO) and that can help control spurge too.