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Match Thread : RU at #3 Iowa, 9pm, BTN TV :

Thanks for the reasonable response and conversation. I'm not coming over here to pick or troll (usually :smiley:), just calling it like I see it. So, when I see people give money the credit for PSU success, it just needs to be pointed out that the money wasn't the only thing, and might not be the biggest thing.

Every program in every sport that has money says the same thing, it's not just the money. Well try it without the money and see how that works out for ya. You don't, why? Because money allows you to do what you want. Hire the best of the best. If you should make a mistake hiring what you thought was the best you can buy them out and hire the next best thing. Screw up again, you buy out the AD and move onto the next best thing.

Wrestling is getting cut throat with the clubs, you can outbid others for the best training partners with money. . Money also allows you to build shinny new practice facilities or in your case completely renovate existing facilities. Currently we reside in the basement of a building built in 1939 that had a leaking roof. Delaney saw it 1st hand. Now you can say wrestlers don't need shinny new things to compete. Show me a kid today who doesn't like shinny new things over grungy old things? If they did you'd be practicing in the basement of the maintenance building. But your not, why? Those are huge advantages when you have money. When you don't there's no magic pill to cure your ills. It's the same for every sport, wrestling's no different.
 
Every program in every sport that has money says the same thing, it's not just the money. Well try it without the money and see how that works out for ya. You don't, why? Because money allows you to do what you want. Hire the best of the best. If you should make a mistake hiring what you thought was the best you can buy them out and hire the next best thing. Screw up again, you buy out the AD and move onto the next best thing.

Wrestling is getting cut throat with the clubs, you can outbid others for the best training partners with money. . Money also allows you to build shinny new practice facilities or in your case completely renovate existing facilities. Currently we reside in the basement of a building built in 1939 that had a leaking roof. Delaney saw it 1st hand. Now you can say wrestlers don't need shinny new things to compete. Show me a kid today who doesn't like shinny new things over grungy old things? If they did you'd be practicing in the basement of the maintenance building. But your not, why? Those are huge advantages when you have money. When you don't there's no magic pill to cure your ills. It's the same for every sport, wrestling's no different.
So, you're saying all of that money will win national championships. Okay, so after you have your new building, your RTC and all of the great recruits that that stuff is going to bring in, how long are you going to give Goodale to be in the top 5 as a team? If he doesn't put Ashnault on top of the podium this year, I think the answer to that better be "not much."
 
I have just listened to everything on this thread and most of it is correct, with the exception of Grello and to an extent, Lipari and Correnti did well. Ashnault survived against a tough ranked kid that he has trained with so probably knows his moves. Suriano showed no offense and playing for that 1 point win got him beat by a top kid. Carver is a tough place to wrestle. We have to get better. Kids are not gassing. That is mental fatigue. We have to improve or it will be a long , frustrating year.
 
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Just watched the Suriano-DeSanto match again, give credit to DeSanto for going strong all 7 minutes, getting the late takedown, but what a jerk at the end getting in Suriano's face smack talking. Ref took a point away from Iowa for that bush league action.

Also, if Suriano continues to struggle with his offense against MIcic and Roman Bravo Young, the other top Big10 133 pounders, I wonder if the move to 133 from 125 will be considered a questionable one? Is it to late to go down to 125 for Big10 Tournament time?
 
How about RU worries about RU and other programs worry about their programs. Thank you.

Bill, wish not at all, but better now than March. Learn, re-group & use it as more motivation, damn it!

Go RU!
Diane
 
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So, you're saying all of that money will win national championships. Okay, so after you have your new building, your RTC and all of the great recruits that that stuff is going to bring in, how long are you going to give Goodale to be in the top 5 as a team? If he doesn't put Ashnault on top of the podium this year, I think the answer to that better be "not much."
How did you possibly move the bar to National Championships? We'll never get the money required to move to National Championship status. I never stated we would. Facts, currently SKWC works on a $125K budget(there is no endowment) that pales in comparison to the over $6 mil. in net assets your club processes. You're comparing apples to oranges and you know it. I'll give you $125K and I'll take the over $6 mil., we'll start up wrestling teams, I'll bet you $1 mil. I kick the ever living sh*t out of your team.

I've stated on here in the past and I'll get shouted down once again, I have no problem with Goodale. An older head coach/administrator type can work. But your assistants then must be young go getters who have done it(Natty's) and can wrestle at a top level and relate to younger kids. We have one of those on staff, we need another.
 
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Why Rider? I'm a graduate of RU NB in 1975. Have seen many wrestling matches at the Barn and RAC , and wrote wrestling for Targum in 1971 and 72, and seen at least a few matches every year since 1971. How many years is that? hmm? let's see....almost 50. Plus been a season ticket holder in Football every year, and season ticket holder for M BB for many of those years, as well as being a big W BB fan since Theresa Grentz made our team great and C Viv continued the run. So again, Why Rider?
Section 113, Row K, Seat 10.
Just because you watch a lot doesn’t mean you know a lot...your comments about NS and AA last night were the dumbest things I’ve heard here...comparing results with unranked kids and their last two matches against some pretty good kids was just ridiculously dumb...we are not an elite team and nowhere near a top 5 team ...get over it and stop your ripping of the kids we do have ...
 
my two cents,for what its worth....the problem not with just wrestling, but all athletics at this university... RUTGERS. itself...not a brand name when you think of college athletic....tradition and perception means everything when a blue chip recruit is looking to take it to the next level........penn st. has that great tradition, but wasn't getting it done in perhaps the best wrestling state in the country...what did they do? hired a legend as hc, and the rest as they say is history....i posted this question on the fb board,,,would ru win a natty if they hired nick saban as our coach...what i'm really trying to say is a brand name coach with a winning tradition, or university with that same tradition get it done here.....when you think of big time wrestling programs that are hallowed in this country ,only two come to mind....iowa, and okie st.....in fb its nd, ala, mich, o st....not RUTGERS...thats just the way it is...you can't play catch up with tradition you don't have...getting into the big ten was good as far as finances are concerned...but, there was no for sight in how to compete with the bluebloods, and even the lesser blue bloods...just have a chat with some north western alum.
they were the big ten doormat and whipping boy for nearly six decades., and we expect ru to compete with the creme of the crop in what,how many years five, or six.....we all love our st., and st. univ....but lets be real people we may never be a mid level success in the big...we couldn't get it done in the big east, and that other crumby conf, and we expect to shine in the big ten...i guess what i'm trying to say is its okay to be critical of all our teams, and athletes...but, put things in perspective...we are what we are, and all the money in the world wont help if you don.t have the name brand, and blue blood tradition.​
Nicely said....
 
Just because you watch a lot doesn’t mean you know a lot...your comments about NS and AA last night were the dumbest things I’ve heard here...comparing results with unranked kids and their last two matches against some pretty good kids was just ridiculously dumb...we are not an elite team and nowhere near a top 5 team ...get over it and stop your ripping of the kids we do have ...


I'll say what I want to say, when I want to say it. And I appreciate your close examination of every word I write. I'll take it as a compliment. I won't even charge you rent for living in your head. Keep watching and reading, I enjoy watching A LOT of wrestling, and discussing the action with others here. Even with you, believe it or not.

Today and tomorrow is Escape the Rock tournament.

Tomorrow, on Flowrestling is Penn St vs Nebraska and Minn at Northwestern

Stay tuned for my comments on all these matches. And be on the look at for my RU- Michigan St Match Preview. It will be posted around Wednesday since the match is on Friday night.

Section 113, Row K, seat 10
 
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Also, how much do you pay Cael? PSU, a Public State University, isn’t transparent by PA Law so I can’t find any of those records.

Go RU!
Diane
So, you were unable to Google "What is Cael Sanderson's salary" and come up with the following...
https://news.psu.edu/story/147273/2...ct-extension-helm-wrestling-team-through-2017

That at least gets you what his salary was from 2012 to 2017, and I'm guessing it went up when it was renewed in 2017.

As to your accusation that Penn State is breaking some transparency law regarding this information...Google would also help you find this, http://sites.psu.edu/psutuitionreform/public-vs-private-debate/, which clearly defines that Penn State is not a public university, and therefore why it is difficult to find the information you are looking for.

If you have more questions, let me know what I can google for you.
 
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Bottom line..until Nick S starts listening to his coaches instead of doing what he wants, he won’t get better. Yeah. He’ll beat the lower level guys but to beat good guys you need some semblance of offense.

He wouldnt listen to Cael and left. Now he’s at RU doing the same thing. The coaches were yelling for him to cut the guy the whole 3rd period and he continued to ride until he gave up the stalls. They told him to attack early and he stalled. Kid has a ton of talent but unless someone can get thru to him, he’ll never realize his potential as NCAA wrestler.

I hear a lot of blame on the coaching staff. And maybe some is warranted if they can’t get kids to buy in. But truthfully the only one that’s been a let down the last two
Weeks is Nick S.

If you can’t get your leaders to buy in, that spells trouble.

Just my 2 cents for what it’s worth
 
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So, you were unable to Google "What is Cael Sanderson's salary" and come up with the following...
https://news.psu.edu/story/147273/2...ct-extension-helm-wrestling-team-through-2017

That at least gets you what his salary was from 2012 to 2017, and I'm guessing it went up when it was renewed in 2017.

As to your accusation that Penn State is breaking some transparency law regarding this information...Google would also help you find this, http://sites.psu.edu/psutuitionreform/public-vs-private-debate/, which clearly defines that Penn State is not a public university, and therefore why it is difficult to find the information you are looking for.

If you have more questions, let me know what I can google for you.

Oh, honey, I know Cael’s salary. PSU is a hybrid Private-Public. But, that’s so it’s not transparent. Who’s kidding who. Thanks for playing though.

Enjoy the snow/rain/ice. Have a nice day.

Go RU!
Diane
 
Wow. Desanto took it to him

I can't say Desanto took it to him. He was hardly offensive and rarely attempted any shots. NS was up 3-0 and then the WTH stalling calls hit Nick..Desanto was opportunistic in the last bits of the match and got the takedown.
 
This team has regressed on its feet. The coaching hasn't been good.

Hmmm...my take is the team hasn't regressed. RU typically hasnt had many down machines this year or the last. Couple that with higher skilled opponents (OSU, Iowa) and our ability to get a take down is diminished considerably. In fact, the other teams become the takedown machines. I would more so question the take down defense against our opponents.
 
Wait, Ash won, right? So, our elite wrestler gets it done & finds a way to win no matter what. Great job! Whew.

16-0 Baby! Keep plugging away, Ant! Enjoy your final year.

Go RU!
Diane
 
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Wait, Ash won, right? So, our elite wrestler gets it done & finds a way to win no matter what. Great job! Whew.

16-0 Baby! Keep plugging away, Ant! Enjoy your final year.

Go RU!
Diane

I am surprised by the reactions of AA's win(by some here). Lugo was a very big recruit for Edinboro and now has been in the Iowa room for two years. Lugo is ranked around 15th, Carver is probably the hardest venue to wrestle in. NewsFlash-it is very hard to bonus college wrestlers, let alone ranked wrestlers. Like a veteran, AA found a way to win. Another win and another week closer to Pittsburgh!!
 
Oh, honey, I know Cael’s salary. PSU is a hybrid Private-Public. But, that’s so it’s not transparent. Who’s kidding who. Thanks for playing though.

Enjoy the snow/rain/ice. Have a nice day.

Go RU!
Diane
You literally said, "I can't find any of those records, when his salary for 2012 to 2017 was published.

And, yes, in 1855, the state of Pennsylvania was trying to hide what Penn State's wrestling coach was going to be paid in 2018. They were pretty clever back then. And, I'm sure that was the only reason it was granted that status. :joy::joy::joy:
 
So, you're saying all of that money will win national championships. Okay, so after you have your new building, your RTC and all of the great recruits that that stuff is going to bring in, how long are you going to give Goodale to be in the top 5 as a team? If he doesn't put Ashnault on top of the podium this year, I think the answer to that better be "not much."

The point is all that money absolutely helps win. Why? See the above references. RU having a new building and the clubs helps, but it doesn't put it on par with high $$ programs that pay for the best coaches and get the best training partners. So comparing the success of Goodale, Rutgers, and wrestlers like AA to Ohio State, Okie State, Iowa, and PSU is still a bit unfair. RU is making very good strides, but not funded like the elite level programs, which puts Rutgers at a disadvantage overall.. That is all people are trying to point out.
 
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Carver is probably the hardest venue to wrestle in.
Just an observation, as I see this being said a few times. That was not a normal Carver crowd. There were a lot of empty seats as snow of 4" before the match and over 8" by end of match kept a lot away. The environment while hostile was not even close to a packed house as TV showed a ton of empties. My point, "the hardest venue" is only as tough as those attending make it. That wasn't tough.
 
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So, you were unable to Google "What is Cael Sanderson's salary" and come up with the following...
https://news.psu.edu/story/147273/2...ct-extension-helm-wrestling-team-through-2017

That at least gets you what his salary was from 2012 to 2017, and I'm guessing it went up when it was renewed in 2017.

As to your accusation that Penn State is breaking some transparency law regarding this information...Google would also help you find this, http://sites.psu.edu/psutuitionreform/public-vs-private-debate/, which clearly defines that Penn State is not a public university, and therefore why it is difficult to find the information you are looking for.

If you have more questions, let me know what I can google for you.


PSU does a great job and Cael is highly successful. No argument. Also, there is also no denying that college wrestling has become an arms race. If a school and fans want a top program, money in the bank is essential.


pawrestlingintn: If you can you provide answers to any of the questions that follow, it would be informative.


How much does Cael earn from his for-profit summer camps, how much is he paid from the NLWC not-for profit, how much if anything does he receive from Ira Lubert, how much does he receive from endorsements, does PSU help him secure endorsements, does PSU promote his summer camps, what other indirect sources of wrestling related income does he have?

How does the NLWC spend the 5 plus million they have in the bank? Do they spend only interest plus annual contributions or also principal? How much does each resident athlete earn?

Clearly Cael has earned his compensation. Do you believe that PSU has a significant advantage over other programs as the assets of the NLWC are more than 7 times higher than the Club with the second most assets?
 
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These were some of the betting lines (point spreads) that the Flo writers published a day or 2 ago. I'm not sure if they make them up themselves or get them from an actual betting site. They usually review their picks a few days after the actual matches and grade themselves. One of them actually has season tickets for RU Wrestling, forgot which one.

"Nick Suriano -5.5 Austin DeSanto

"DeSanto has been rolling, but Suriano presents the toughest opponent DeSanto has yet to face this season. Last week he beat Lizak 6-1. Offense (DeSanto) meets defense (Suriano) in this one. The key for DeSanto will be to limit Suriano's counters."

"Anthony Ashnault -4.5 Patrick Lugo

Lugo hasn't lost by five points in two years. But Ashnault has been a scoring machine, putting 10 or more on the board in all but one bout this season."
 
As someone who knows the sport I’ll cut to the chase. I’m a little concerned about the trend with Suriano. Mainly:

1. Blowing a 3-0 lead in the manner he did. National Champs with his motor and level of defense on neutral don’t blow a lead like that in the 2nd/3rd.
2. Hanging on a ride too long when you have a stall. At this point in his career losing that point AND the escape are completely unacceptable. Should have cut his ass right away. I knew he had a chance of losing at that point.
3. Getting taken down with seconds left to lose a match.
4. Lack of aggression to close out a period

I give DeSanto credit for taking a win from Nick. All respect. I’ll keave his antics out as I’m keeping this strictly about wrestling. But Suriano flat out lost that match and it has nothing to do with bumping up. He’s 5 points better than that kid. My god, when is Nick Suriano up 3-0 and blows a lead by getting stalls and taken down. Love the kid and his attitude. I’m not going to panic. But there is reason for concern. This is not a good look for us if we want to recruit top talent which we desperately need.

As for Ashnault, everybody needs to stop. At no point last night did I think Lugo had an advantage. Closer than i would have liked but he had a brilliant ankle pick to end it and did what he needed to take a solid guy out in a hostile environment. The idea that he was supposed to bonus a guy of that quality who just lost by a point or 2 to Kolodzik is insane and ignorant. I think Ashnault is in a great spot right now.
 
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PSU does a great job and Cael is highly successful. No argument. Also, there is also no denying that college wrestling has become an arms race. If a school and fans want a top program, money in the bank is essential.


pawrestlingintn: If you can you provide answers to any of the questions that follow, it would be informative.


How much does Cael earn from his for-profit summer camps, how much is he paid from the NLWC not-for profit, how much if anything does he receive from Ira Lubert, how much does he receive from endorsements, does PSU help him secure endorsements, does PSU promote his summer camps, what other indirect sources of wrestling related income does he have?

How does the NLWC spend the 5 plus million they have in the bank? Do they spend only interest plus annual contributions or also principal? How much does each resident athlete earn?

Clearly Cael has earned his compensation. Do you believe that PSU has a significant advantage over other programs as the assets of the NLWC are more than 7 times higher than the Club with the second most assets?
I can't answer any of your questions, except I will address a couple, with my opinions.

1. Do you really believe that a trustee of a university, and a huge university donor would directly give compensation to a coach. I'm sure those donations are largely tax deductible, whereas a direct compensation wouldn't be. Besides that, with the microscope PSU has been under since Sandusky, a payment like this would come under significant scrutiny.
2. Yes, PSU has a money advantage, but they didn't prior to 2014-15, when they received the $5 million gift. By that time, they had won four straight national championships, which were almost exclusively due to Sanderson and his coaches, because the money advantage wasn't there. They were getting great recruits because of their successful pasts.

I have no idea on your questions regarding the NLWC. I can tell you that total compensation for the NLWC is about $430,000. That includes $70,000 or so for the secretary, Dave Hart, so that leaves $360,000 for resident athletes (7) and coaches (6).
 
I also said “isn’t transparent by PA Law” & you responded “As to your accusation that Penn State is breaking some transparency law”. So, we clearing are talking past one another today.

I’m not sure why you are so upset about PSU winning & having the money to do it. It’s an arms race. Pretty much all the sports are that way these days. Bigger, shinier and better. Money matters. Of course, Cinderella teams do it, too. We are top 10-15 with much less money. You’re either a storied program, a well-funded program, or both to be in Top
3 and then everyone else. I’m not worried about PSU though. I’m focused on RU and how to get RU better. After all, this is an RU board.

Again, have a good day Pawrestling. Appreciate some of your insight on our boards.

Go RU!
Diane
 
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Bottom line..until Nick S starts listening to his coaches instead of doing what he wants, he won’t get better. Yeah. He’ll beat the lower level guys but to beat good guys you need some semblance of offense.

He wouldnt listen to Cael and left. Now he’s at RU doing the same thing. The coaches were yelling for him to cut the guy the whole 3rd period and he continued to ride until he gave up the stalls. They told him to attack early and he stalled. Kid has a ton of talent but unless someone can get thru to him, he’ll never realize his potential as NCAA wrestler.

I hear a lot of blame on the coaching staff. And maybe some is warranted if they can’t get kids to buy in. But truthfully the only one that’s been a let down the last two
Weeks is Nick S.

If you can’t get your leaders to buy in, that spells trouble.

Just my 2 cents for what it’s worth

Can’t believe I’m saying this but excellent post.
 
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Sorry, Jersey Boys! I’m done :boxing:

I took that comment out. Not looking to dictate board talk, but I just don’t need the all mighty PSU program thrown in my face every thread! I also think some of the PSU posters do bring something to the board but there is a veil of superiority and troll at times which gets old.
 
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Agree to disagree I guess. I think he has a a good chance to AA in his career. Just don't see him having the career AA has had.

Folks need to cater their expectations about JoJo.He has not step on the Rutgers Mat yet.I certainly hope he excels in reaching all American status.Even as a NO 1 at the weight and overall P4P Top 10 I think he is a multi AA.If he exceeds that I will be ecstatic regarding those expectations. There is no guarantee but as a program we must continue to build adding resident athletes.We need the Rutgers room to be tough as nails.Our wrestlers must finish their 3rd periods
 
If I'm a Rutgers fan I wouldn't be too concerned by the performances of Suriano and Ash. Sometimes people dont realize the advantages the home guy has when their opponent is traveling so far and also coming into hostile environments.
 
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A slight case of Monday morning quarter-backing. Don't recall anyone really being negative on him when he committed here.
No. I always said he'd never contribute. Go check my posts from 2017 and 2018, and you'll see that I said Donner would not contribute and that I was worried about Grello (& Mulligan) and our overall recruiting (even dating back to 2015 & 16 on recruiting):

https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/threads/wrestling-165-issue.119581/#post-2638040

https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/threads/iowa-post-match.135991/#post-3059146

https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/threads/2018-wrestling-news.140429/page-10#post-3506833

https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/threads/2018-wrestling-news.140429/page-10#post-3506933

Just a fyi

Seth Gross is a Iowa recruit.
He would be the equivalent of RU getting nick suriano.
bingo
 
No. I always said he'd never contribute. Go check my posts from 2017 and 2018, and you'll see that I said Donner would not contribute and that I was worried about Grello (& Mulligan) and our overall recruiting (even dating back to 2015 & 16 on recruiting):

https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/threads/wrestling-165-issue.119581/#post-2638040

https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/threads/iowa-post-match.135991/#post-3059146

https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/threads/2018-wrestling-news.140429/page-10#post-3506833

https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/threads/2018-wrestling-news.140429/page-10#post-3506933

bingo
I stand corrected. Goody and Co. could use your foresight. Care to give them a hand recruiting? Lol

Lately, they need all the help they can get.
 
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If I'm a Rutgers fan I wouldn't be too concerned by the performances of Suriano and Ash. Sometimes people dont realize the advantages the home guy has when their opponent is traveling so far and also coming into hostile environments.

Seriously, it's a long season. A lot of the top guys are coasting (some even losing) right now. Nickal only won 8-6 yesterday, Steveson won 9-5, etc. They will dial it up when the time is right.
 
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