OT: 2022-23 NHL thread….Devils & Rangers & Islanders

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

This notion that rostering fighters somehow scares the opponents away from hitting your star players is a straight up myth. Do you actually think that the big hitters are going to shy away from hitting someone because they might be challenged to a fight? Do you think Trouba is afraid to throw his hits against teams that have fighters? The fighter isn't going to be on the same line as the star players anyway, so if there's going to be retribution for a big hit, it's most likely going to be later on, and nobody that sees an opportunity to throw a big hit is going to think about some guy on the bench trying to get revenge later in the game. Also in these days of the instigator penalty, you can't just start throwing punches on an unwilling opponent without hurting your own team. This idea of fighters protecting the stars is a very outdated concept.

Its do not believe so, I know so. The days of carrying 3 goons is over but you need to have a tough guy to protect your stars.

Funny enough mike rupp just talked at length on a podcast about this on Saturday along with a ton of other topics. He said that while it wont prevent every hit that having a tough guys
A) makes the stars play with more confidence and looser
B) you cant quantify how many cheap shots DIDNT occur because of the tough guy
C) he said there were definitely some teams he didnt fvck around against because of their goons whereas by the end of his career he felt on top of the world because there were so few goons so hed run anyone on the ice

It very much still is a thing. Look at the past 5 champs

2019 Blues: maroon
2020 Tampa: maroon
2021 tampa: maroon
2022: macdermid (toughest in league imo and yes he didnt play in playoffs)
2023 vegas: kolesar not necessarily a goon but a top 20ish fighter in the league

And i “know” this because i have multiple friends in the league. One of whom i had lunch with Wed in jersey city, and no we didnt discuss this at lunch

 

[mikemarc1]

Its do not believe so, I know so. The days of carrying 3 goons is over but you need to have a tough guy to protect your stars.

Funny enough mike rupp just talked at length on a podcast about this on Saturday along with a ton of other topics. He said that while it wont prevent every hit that having a tough guys
A) makes the stars play with more confidence and looser
B) you cant quantify how many cheap shots DIDNT occur because of the tough guy
C) he said there were definitely some teams he didnt fvck around against because of their goons whereas by the end of his career he felt on top of the world because there were so few goons so hed run anyone on the ice

It very much still is a thing. Look at the past 5 champs

2019 Blues: maroon
2020 Tampa: maroon
2021 tampa: maroon
2022: macdermid (toughest in league imo and yes he didnt play in playoffs)
2023 vegas: kolesar not necessarily a goon but a top 20ish fighter in the league

And i “know” this because i have multiple friends in the league. One of whom i had lunch with Wed in jersey city, and no we didnt discuss this at lunch

Besides fighting, what makes a player tough, in your mind?

I think physicality and hits are a big part of that..no?

And Meier has so much more hits than MacDermid and pretty much even career trajectory with Maroon..why are these two tough and Meier not?

 

[Proud NJ Sports Fan]

Who did the Devils sign today?

Tearney

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Besides fighting, what makes a player tough, in your mind?

I think physicality and hits are a big part of that..no?

And Meier has so much more hits than MacDermid and pretty much even career trajectory with Maroon..why are these two tough and Meier not?

Meier is a good hitter. He instills zero fear in anyone though. He doesnt clobber people either.

And dont be silly, mac averages more hits per game. Not saying meier isnt a good forechecker and doesnt lay the body but dont pretend anyone fears him.

The devils overall really dont have any big hitters. Their top 2 are probably meier and mcleod? Bastian is a great defensive minded forward who id love the rangers to get in 2 years to play on our 4th line but doesnt lay down kill shots

 

[nutfromSEC117]

 

[Ronnie_B]

Besides fighting, what makes a player tough, in your mind?

I think physicality and hits are a big part of that..no?

And Meier has so much more hits than MacDermid and pretty much even career trajectory with Maroon..why are these two tough and Meier not?

Dude, he's trolling with this bullshit. The Canes had four fighting majors last year. The cup champs had the same amount of fighting majors as the Devils and most of the teams that finished in the top ten in this category didn't make the playoffs.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Dude, he's trolling with this bullshit. The Canes had four fighting majors last year. The cup champs had the same amount of fighting majors as the Devils and most of the teams that finished in the top ten in this category didn't make the playoffs.

Not trolling one iota. As i said you dont need a team of goons but to say you need to have team toughness and physicality is a fact. The devs got absolutely caved in vs a totally dismantled canes team playing ahl guys. Theyre very weak when teams get physical with them. They lucked out playing a rangers team who basically didnt have a pulse behind the bench coaching them. Even a shallow pulse from gallant or a half brain cell and they win in 5

 

[Ronnie_B]

Not trolling one iota. As i said you dont need a team of goons but to say you need to have team toughness and physicality is a fact. The devs got absolutely caved in vs a totally dismantled canes team playing ahl guys. Theyre very weak when teams get physical with them. They lucked out playing a rangers team who basically didnt have a pulse behind the bench coaching them. Even a shallow pulse from gallant or a half brain cell and they win in 5

You're 100% trolling when you resort to hyperbole comments like you've been making about the Devils all year.

You hate them, that's fine, but don't be an asshole when talking about them. For example giving them zero credit for beating and outplaying the Rangers by blaming it on your coaching. GFYS with that crap.

You talked all year about how the Devils are softer than baby shit and then make excuses when they pushed your team around and beat them when it counts most.

 

[mikemarc1]

Meier is a good hitter. He instills zero fear in anyone though. He doesnt clobber people either.

And dont be silly, mac averages more hits per game. Not saying meier isnt a good forechecker and doesnt lay the body but dont pretend anyone fears him.

The devils overall really dont have any big hitters. Their top 2 are probably meier and mcleod? Bastian is a great defensive minded forward who id love the rangers to get in 2 years to play on our 4th line but doesnt lay down kill shots

Again, what is your definition of tough? What do you think players “fear”?

Mac averages about 2 hits per game, while Meier averages about 1.5.

That’s not really a huge difference.

Believe me, more players and teams fear Meier over MacDermit. Meier hits and scores while Mac is basically just a hitter

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

You're 100% trolling when you resort to hyperbole comments like you've been making about the Devils all year.

You hate them, that's fine, but don't be an asshole when talking about them. For example giving them zero credit for beating and outplaying the Rangers by blaming it on your coaching. GFYS with that crap.

You talked all year about how the Devils are softer than baby shit and then make excuses when they pushed your team around and beat them when it counts most.

Devs were and still are soft. Its well established gallant was an awful coach. Its not even opinion haha. He literally didnt have a system in place and his practices were 30 minutes max all season haha

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Again, what is your definition of tough? What do you think players “fear”?

Mac averages about 2 hits per game, while Meier averages about 1.5.

That’s not really a huge difference.

Believe me, more players and teams fear Meier over MacDermit. Meier hits and scores while Mac is basically just a hitter

By virtue of that definition more teams fear panarin than they do meier and macdermid. Which yes, more teams rather have macdermid on the ice than panarin no shit. But they dont physically fear panarin they fear his elite hockey ability.

You can say that meier is physical as he gets in on the forecheck and plays with good effort he just doesnt exactly lay the wood. To me theres a difference between physical and tough. Physical is this guy will hit you on the forecheck. Tough is, im keeping my head on a swivel when this guys on the ice and not messing around or getting him mad.

And yes id prefer meier on my team than pat maroon. But refusing the acknowledge having team physicality and toughness isnt still a big part of the sport is just silly. The reason why players will take big runs at jack if they can line him up is because whos gonna do something to them? Mike mcleod (who may be suspended for some time)?

 

[Ronnie_B]

Devs were and still are soft. Its well established gallant was an awful coach. Its not even opinion haha. He literally didnt have a system in place and his practices were 30 minutes max all season haha

You're on ignore fuvkface.

 

[mikemarc1]

By virtue of that definition more teams fear panarin than they do meier and macdermid. Which yes, more teams rather have macdermid on the ice than panarin no shit. But they dont physically fear panarin they fear his elite hockey ability.

You can say that meier is physical as he gets in on the forecheck and plays with good effort he just doesnt exactly lay the wood. To me theres a difference between physical and tough. Physical is this guy will hit you on the forecheck. Tough is, im keeping my head on a swivel when this guys on the ice and not messing around or getting him mad.

And yes id prefer meier on my team than pat maroon. But refusing the acknowledge having team physicality and toughness isnt still a big part of the sport is just silly. The reason why players will take big runs at jack if they can line him up is because whos gonna do something to them? Mike mcleod (who may be suspended for some time)?

Lazar, Meier, Tofolli were all brought in for some toughness.

While sure, not the toughest, they’re the answers to your final question.

 

[nutfromSEC117]

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Lazar, Meier, Tofolli were all brought in for some toughness.

While sure, not the toughest, they’re the answers to your final question.

Stop with saying toffoli is tough haha, it makes you sound like youve never watched him play. Lazar is a 4th line grinder. He gets in on the forecheck and knows his role as a checker, sure but not exactly tough or chippy.

 

[mikemarc1]

Stop with saying toffoli is tough haha, it makes you sound like youve never watched him play. Lazar is a 4th line grinder. He gets in on the forecheck and knows his role as a checker, sure but not exactly tough or chippy.

Players don’t need to be “tough” to be the answer to your question “If someone takes down Hughes who will go after him?”

Tofolli, Meier and Lazar are your answers for the three I would say.

It seems there’s probably less than 10 guys in the league that satisfy your definition of “tough”…so I’m not quite sure what to say otherwise.

And I can guarantee I’ve watched more hockey than anyone on this board…so you can stop questioning that.

 

[zappaa]

Devils kicked the Rangers ass all over the rink

 

[CHOPU]

Its do not believe so, I know so. The days of carrying 3 goons is over but you need to have a tough guy to protect your stars.

Funny enough mike rupp just talked at length on a podcast about this on Saturday along with a ton of other topics. He said that while it wont prevent every hit that having a tough guys
A) makes the stars play with more confidence and looser
B) you cant quantify how many cheap shots DIDNT occur because of the tough guy
C) he said there were definitely some teams he didnt fvck around against because of their goons whereas by the end of his career he felt on top of the world because there were so few goons so hed run anyone on the ice

It very much still is a thing. Look at the past 5 champs

2019 Blues: maroon
2020 Tampa: maroon
2021 tampa: maroon
2022: macdermid (toughest in league imo and yes he didnt play in playoffs)
2023 vegas: kolesar not necessarily a goon but a top 20ish fighter in the league

And i “know” this because i have multiple friends in the league. One of whom i had lunch with Wed in jersey city, and no we didnt discuss this at lunch

Rupp hasn’t been in the league for almost ten years and the league has changed drastically in that time . If goonery was so valuable in todays nhl why has the leagues biggest tough guy reavo been on 4 teams in 5 years.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Players don’t need to be “tough” to be the answer to your question “If someone takes down Hughes who will go after him?”

Tofolli, Meier and Lazar are your answers for the three I would say.

It seems there’s probably less than 10 guys in the league that satisfy your definition of “tough”…so I’m not quite sure what to say otherwise.

And I can guarantee I’ve watched more hockey than anyone on this board…so you can stop questioning that.

In what world is toffoli even a physical player let alone tough?

And theres way more than 10 tough players in the league. Heres who id classify as “tough” on the rangers for example. Id define this as guys who are both physical and willing to dance with anyone whether they win or lose.

Goodrow
Cuylle
Lindgren
Trouba
Schneider

There is one on the devs and hes probably not in the lineup and thats brendan smith. MAYBE you can throw bahl and mcleod in there too? Devs were 29th in the league in hits, theyre not a physical team, im not making a crazy statement here.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Rupp hasn’t been in the league for almost ten years and the league has changed drastically in that time . If goonery was so valuable in todays nhl why has the leagues biggest tough guy reavo been on 4 teams in 5 years.

Goonery isnt all that valuable. What is valuable is an nhl caliber player who can also intimidate, fight and bully/agitate when needed. To name some guys who fall in that bucket would be the below. Theres more of course but just some below who come to mind

Brady tkachuk
Matthew tkachuk
Tanner jeanot
Barclay goodrow
Jacob trouba
Trent frederic
Tyler bertuzzi
Max domi
Garnet hathaway

 

[CHOPU]

He was worse than an FA. He was given an FA contract but first had to give up a haul of assets for him.

What would you prefer:

Not trade for timo and keep the assets and sign BOTH domi and bertuzzi this offseason to 1 year deals? And then reassess 7/1/2024 what you want to do?

OR

Trade a haul for a guy and then sign him for 8 X $8.8 when you couldve just signed him for free on 7/1/2024?

Devils gave up 3/4 tweener in zetterlund, a late first , and shak Muk a dman who was drafted with an extra first and has no roster spot with Dougie , luke and nemec making roster this year plus Casey in the pipeline . Meier is a 6’1 220 pound horse in his prime that scores 40 goals and has over 150 hits a
season . There aren’t many guys in the nhl with those stats so when one comes available you jump all over it . If they waited until 2024 he’d be getting 7x 10+ at the age of 28. Devils toughest player is gonna be wrecking Bahl . Kids a big dude and he’s just coming into his own. See a lot of potential in him . Think they will be ok in the physical department with bastian , lazar , McLeod , Bahl, timo , smith and new addition of Collin Miller . Plus toffoli plays a little heavier game than the guy he’s replacing Tatar .

 

[CHOPU]

Goonery isnt all that valuable. What is valuable is an nhl caliber player who can also intimidate, fight and bully/agitate when needed. To name some guys who fall in that bucket would be the below. Theres more of course but just some below who come to mind

Brady tkachuk
Matthew tkachuk
Tanner jeanot
Barclay goodrow
Jacob trouba
Trent frederic
Tyler bertuzzi
Max domi
Garnet hathaway

The Tkachuk bros are unicorns and the rest are a bunch of meh . Bruins had 3 on your list and got bounced in the first round . Wrecking Bahl took care of your boy goodrow and bounced him in the first round also .

 

[mikemarc1]

Goonery isnt all that valuable. What is valuable is an nhl caliber player who can also intimidate, fight and bully/agitate when needed. To name some guys who fall in that bucket would be the below. Theres more of course but just some below who come to mind

Brady tkachuk
Matthew tkachuk
Tanner jeanot
Barclay goodrow
Jacob trouba
Trent frederic
Tyler bertuzzi
Max domi
Garnet hathaway

Besides Tkachuk brothers, give me Meier over any of the other 7 any day of the week.

I think most nhl fans would agree

 

[mdh2003]

And I can guarantee I’ve watched more hockey than anyone on this board…

Lol - how could you possibly know that….and WGAF. I know this guy…I watch this…I blah, blah, blah.

Wow did this thread get so goddamn stupid. Just shut er down and create a new one when the season starts. Or, and I can’t believe I am saying this - just create separate dev and Ranger threads so we don’t have the drudgery of nonsense hockey-d*ck size comparisons. If the kids can’t play nice, send them to different ends of the house…

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Devils gave up 3/4 tweener in zetterlund, a late first , and shak Muk a dman who was drafted with an extra first and has no roster spot with Dougie , luke and nemec making roster this year plus Casey in the pipeline . Meier is a 6’1 220 pound horse in his prime that scores 40 goals and has over 150 hits a
season . There aren’t many guys in the nhl with those stats so when one comes available you jump all over it . If they waited until 2024 he’d be getting 7x 10+ at the age of 28. Devils toughest player is gonna be wrecking Bahl . Kids a big dude and he’s just coming into his own. See a lot of potential in him . Think they will be ok in the physical department with bastian , lazar , McLeod , Bahl, timo , smith and new addition of Collin Miller . Plus toffoli plays a little heavier game than the guy he’s replacing Tatar .

We gotta stop with the toffoli playing a heavy game thing, thats not his game. Tatar actually even dishes out more hits per game than toffoli.

And chillllll with the meier being a 40 goal scorer. Hes only gotten over 30 two seasons in his career and hit 40 this year on the nose but that was because someone had to score on a putrid san jose team. He scored at a 35 goal pace with the devs in the regular season (not gonna add the postseason as that would be unfair since he disappeared).

What the devs are hoping with timo is that he is just a higher paid chris kreider without the speed.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Besides Tkachuk brothers, give me Meier over any of the other 7 any day of the week.

I think most nhl fans would agree

No shit you take meier over garnet hathaway lol. Youre creating straw man arguments here. My point is that you need toughness and physicality to compliment your scorers. This isnt binary. Its not one or the other.

 

[mikemarc1]

Lol - how could you possibly know that….and WGAF. I know this guy…I watch this…I blah, blah, blah.

Wow did this thread get so goddamn stupid. Just shut er down and create a new one when the season starts. Or, and I can’t believe I am saying this - just create separate dev and Ranger threads so we don’t have the drudgery of nonsense hockey-d*ck size comparisons. If the kids can’t play nice, send them to different ends of the house…

The only reason I say this cause Kyk infers I don’t watch. So you may not, but obviously he does give a f—-k how much hockey one watches.

 

[mikemarc1]

No shit you take meier over garnet hathaway lol. Youre creating straw man arguments here. My point is that you need toughness and physicality to compliment your scorers. This isnt binary. Its not one or the other.

And the devils do. You mentioned 3 players, I mentioned 3 other players.

End of discussion

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

The only reason I say this cause Kyk infers I don’t watch. So you may not, but obviously he does give a f—-k how much hockey one watches.

I mean when you say toffoli is tough and plays a physical game it does make me question how much youve actually seen him play. Because those are two words that dont come up when people talk about his game.

 

[CHOPU]

We gotta stop with the toffoli playing a heavy game thing, thats not his game. Tatar actually even dishes out more hits per game than toffoli.

And chillllll with the meier being a 40 goal scorer. Hes only gotten over 30 two seasons in his career and hit 40 this year on the nose but that was because someone had to score on a putrid san jose team. He scored at a 35 goal pace with the devs in the regular season (not gonna add the postseason as that would be unfair since he disappeared).

What the devs are hoping with timo is that he is just a higher paid chris kreider without the speed.

Toffoli 6 foot 203 , Tatar 5’10 173. Toffoli goes to the dirty areas in the ozone . Hence the “he plays a little heavier game than Tatar” . Timo in his prime age of 25/26 scores 35 and 40 goal seasons the last 2 season . A 40 goal scorer is a 40 goal scorer no matter what excuses you make up . I’ll pass on the Kreider comparison

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Toffoli 6 foot 203 , Tatar 5’10 173. Toffoli goes to the dirty areas in the ozone . Hence the “he plays a little heavier game than Tatar” . Timo in his prime age of 25/26 scores 35 and 40 goal seasons the last 2 season . A 40 goal scorer is a 40 goal scorer no matter what excuses you make up . I’ll pass on the Kreider comparison

So chris kreider is a 50 goal scorer then? Come on.

Toffoli is not known for going to the dirty areas man haha. Im telling you, you havent really watched much of him. Does he go into the corner like every forward in the nhl when the pucks there? Sure. But what hes known for is being an extremely cerebral player who has elite level awareness ans anticipation. I am not saying hes a bad player one bit, hes actually pretty damn good but he DOES NOT play a heavy game and never has. Great awarenes, vision, passing and a very accurate shot. Really good on one timers

 

[nutfromSEC117]

Kreider goals in playoff series vs devils

Knee cap/shin vs actual stick ???

 

[mdh2003]

The only reason I say this cause Kyk infers I don’t watch. So you may not, but obviously he does give a f—-k how much hockey one watches.

The first mistake you made was wanting to measure yourself up with kyk’s ruler, lol. No offense, he seems like a nice kid, but most certainly has a screw loose. I mean, who sits outside of Barchi’s office, gets in the guy’s grill and has an impromptu pushing for GS 2.0?!

Both of you matching stupid with stupider, while certainly fun for a few rounds, gets old real quick. This season is long done, maybe time for a new thread. You kids can keep playing in this one…

 

[mikemarc1]

The first mistake you made was wanting to measure yourself up with kyk’s ruler, lol. No offense, he seems like a nice kid, but most certainly has a screw loose. I mean, who sits outside of Barchi’s office, gets in the guy’s grill and has an impromptu pushing for GS 2.0?!

Both of you matching stupid with stupider, while certainly fun for a few rounds, gets old real quick. This season is long done, maybe time for a new thread. You kids can keep playing in this one…

All good. This discussion IS very stupid, I’ve tried to end it a few times by just agreeing to disagree, yet he keeps continuing to make opinions I have to disagree with while questioning mine. So I’m going to keep responding when he questions my view

Again, hope this is the end of it. We seemed to have finally agreed the Devils DO have sone players that are physical and tough…although, i agree, their style certainly isn’t a tough, physical team

 

[mdh2003]

All good. This discussion IS very stupid, I’ve tried to end it a few times by just agreeing to disagree, yet he keeps continuing to make opinions I have to disagree with while questioning mine. So I’m going to keep responding when he questions my view

Again, hope this is the end of it. We seemed to have finally agreed the Devils DO have sone players that are physical and tough…although, i agree, their style certainly isn’t a tough, physical team

Well, at least we know it will end at some point.

Only one forever thread on the internet. Talk about in one’s head. Obsess much:
https://syracusefan.com/threads/the-all-inclusive-rutgers-dumpster-fire-thread.61753/

 

[CHOPU]

So chris kreider is a 50 goal scorer then? Come on.

Toffoli is not known for going to the dirty areas man haha. Im telling you, you havent really watched much of him. Does he go into the corner like every forward in the nhl when the pucks there? Sure. But what hes known for is being an extremely cerebral player who has elite level awareness ans anticipation. I am not saying hes a bad player one bit, hes actually pretty damn good but he DOES NOT play a heavy game and never has. Great awarenes, vision, passing and a very accurate shot. Really good on one timers

Kreider is a 50 goal scorer u can’t take that one season away from him. Meier is coming off a 40 goal season but I’m not gonna get into a pissing match about this bc it’s a waste of my time .

toffoli scored a lot of goals last season on the goal line to 4 foot range for a guy that is not known for going to the dirty area. I’ll go with the eye test instead of the KYK scouting report.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Kreider is a 50 goal scorer u can’t take that one season away from him. Meier is coming off a 40 goal season but I’m not gonna get into a pissing match about this bc it’s a waste of my time .

toffoli scored a lot of goals last season on the goal line to 4 foot range for a guy that is not known for going to the dirty area. I’ll go with the eye test instead of the KYK scouting report.

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Lol kreider probably leads the league in goals within 4 feet of the net and you wouldnt catch me dead calling him a tough guy, he is physical though. Again, toffoli is a good player. To try to call him physical or tough is just really dumb tho.

Just an fyi, majority of all forwards goals are close to the net. They aint shooting from the point lol

 

[CHOPU]

Lol kreider probably leads the league in goals within 4 feet of the net and you wouldnt catch me dead calling him a tough guy, he is physical though. Again, toffoli is a good player. To try to call him physical or tough is just really dumb tho.

Just an fyi, majority of all forwards goals are close to the net. They aint shooting from the point lol

Again where did I call toffoli a tough guy . I literally said toffoli is a heavier player than Tatar that’s gonna go to the harder areas . Keep making shit up

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Again where did I call toffoli a tough guy . I literally said toffoli is a heavier player than Tatar that’s gonna go to the harder areas . Keep making shit up

Someone said toughness too. Im not being a dick here but by “heavier” do you mean like actual weight on a scale? Haha. If so, yes hes heavier. If “heavier” means he plays more physical than no

 

[CHOPU]

Someone said toughness too. Im not being a dick here but by “heavier” do you mean like actual weight on a scale? Haha. If so, yes hes heavier. If “heavier” means he plays more physical than no

Well you are a dick know it all so I’ll just leave it at that