OT: 2022-23 NHL thread….Devils & Rangers & Islanders

[e5fdny]

Problem is where does general hockey talk go? Can't have like 4 hockey threads in here except for the playoffs.

Then why THREE separate ones for baseball?

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Great on his edges?
I’ve never seen a more invisible top pick in my life.

He isn’t capable of creating one foot of space for himself or anyone else.
Playing him with Mika would be a crime.

Youll see. O/U 27 goals. What you taking

 

[Proud NJ Sports Fan]

Time to create a Devils only thread

Rangers can have one too I guess

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Time to create a Devils only thread

Rangers can have one too I guess

Dumb. You want that just go to hfboards.com

 

[mikemarc1]

I agree the devs have a bright future. but you do realize more than 1 franchise can have a bright future right?u

Of course. Buffalo, Detroit are certainly in the conversation..with Arizona, Columbus and Montreal I’d say too but a bit more down the road.

I don’t think a team with the 3rd highest average age heading into the season and a prospect pool ranked 22nd in the league qualifies. We certainly could be wrong

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Of course. Buffalo, Detroit are certainly in the conversation..with Arizona, Columbus and Montreal I’d say too but a bit more down the road.

I don’t think a team with the 3rd highest average age heading into the season and a prospect pool ranked 22nd in the league qualifies. We certainly could be wrong

Define bright future? I mean its pretty inconceivable to portray a scenario (outside of massive injuries) that the rangers arent in the playoffs for this entire decade.

- You have 3 top 6 forwards all age 23 or younger
- 25 year old norris winner
- 26 year old vezina winner
- arguably your 4 best dmen are all age 25 or younger (schneider is mini trouba)
- two locks for floors of middle 6 forwards in perrault and othmann
- 3 locks for floors of 4th line grinders in cuylle, berard and sykora
- huge amount of cap space lines up for a monster ufa class in 2026 and frankly if they wanted to they could take a run at leon in 2025 as well.

Youre likely looking at a lineup that has wither mcdavid or eichel going into 2026 along with kaprizov.

As far as bright futures are concerned for the remainder of the 2020’s decade the rangers are EASILY in the top 10 there

 

[mikemarc1]

Define bright future? I mean its pretty inconceivable to portray a scenario (outside of massive injuries) that the rangers arent in the playoffs for this entire decade.

- You have 3 top 6 forwards all age 23 or younger
- 25 year old norris winner
- 26 year old vezina winner
- arguably your 4 best dmen are all age 25 or younger (schneider is mini trouba)
- two locks for floors of middle 6 forwards in perrault and othmann
- 3 locks for floors of 4th line grinders in cuylle, berard and sykora
- huge amount of cap space lines up for a monster ufa class in 2026 and frankly if they wanted to they could take a run at leon in 2025 as well.

Youre likely looking at a lineup that has wither mcdavid or eichel going into 2026 along with kaprizov.

As far as bright futures are concerned for the remainder of the 2020’s decade the rangers are EASILY in the top 10 there

Why do you heep bringing up signing Kaprizov, McDavid and Eichel…

Do you realize this is helping my point?? If rangers currently have a bright future (young studs in the nhl, grear prospects, and salary to retain them)…you wouldn’t need nor want these players to imorove your team

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Why do you heep bringing up signing Kaprizov, McDavid and Eichel…

Do you realize this is helping my point?? If rangers currently have a bright future (young studs in the nhl, grear prospects, and salary to retain them)…you wouldn’t need nor want these players to imorove your team

Not all teams need suck for a decade. Sorry but just not needed. Like there's a reason there's free agency haha. So the devs in 3 years have a 27 year old nico signed and rangers can sign a 29 year old mcdavid, eichel or kaprizov. It's really the same shit. Lining up cap space for UFA signings is also a part of roster construction.

To pretend as if the rangers arent a top ufa destination is just silly and lacking awareness imo.

 

[mikemarc1]

Not all teams need suck for a decade. Sorry but just not needed. Like there's a reason there's free agency haha. So the devs in 3 years have a 27 year old nico signed and rangers can sign a 29 year old mcdavid, eichel or kaprizov. It's really the same shit. Lining up cap space for UFA signings is also a part of roster construction.

To pretend as if the rangers arent a top ufa destination is just silly and lacking awareness imo.

We’re talking about two different things now. New York is certainly a top FA destination, never said otherwise.

You’re just sounding hypocritical to me, saying how good the Rangers prospects and minors are…then saying how excited you are for UFAs to come in. Big time UFAs aren’t needeed if you have big time prospects to keep.

Rangers future looks bleak right now…which is why you’re counting on Eichel, Kaprizov and McDavid to bolster their lineup in 3 years

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

@mikemarc1 the 2026 UFA class rangers have both panarin and trouba coming off the books.

Realistically for the 2025 class they'd be able to move kreider and trouba to free up space to take runs at leon and rantenen if they hit ufa.

I'd be SHOCKED if rangers don't sign AT LEAST one if not two of leon, rantenen, eichel, mcdavid, kaprizov. There's some monsters set to his ufa in 2025 and 2026 and NYR is at the top of most guys lists

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

We’re talking about two different things now. New York is certainly a top FA destination, never said otherwise.

You’re just sounding hypocritical to me, saying how good the Rangers prospects and minors are…then saying how excited you are for UFAs to come in. Big time UFAs aren’t needeed if you have big time prospects to keep.

Rangers future looks bleak right now…which is why you’re counting on Eichel, Kaprizov and McDavid to bolster their lineup in 3 years

When did I say how good the rangers prospects and minors are? I said they are what they are. I'll repeat it in case you missed it.

Othmann and perrault are two middle 6 wingers
Sykora, Cuylle, Berard are 4th line grinders with possible 3rd line upside
Zac Jones and Matthew Robertson on the back end you'd just need to be #6 dmen realistically with how deep our D corps is

 

[mikemarc1]

When did I say how good the rangers prospects and minors are? I said they are what they are. I'll repeat it in case you missed it.

Othmann and perrault are two middle 6 wingers
Sykora, Cuylle, Berard are 4th line grinders with possible 3rd line upside
Zac Jones and Matthew Robertson on the back end you'd just need to be #6 dmen realistically with how deep our D corps is

Ok, I guess you didn’t…and So again, I’ll say it. Current team average age near 30. Prospects “are what they are” and nothing special.

This is what I’m referring to when saying Rangers future is bleak…need to rely on UFAs. I don’t think that’s the best way to build a team.

 

[ruteelrice]

Ok, I guess you didn’t…and So again, I’ll say it. Current team average age near 30. Prospects “are what they are” and nothing special.

This is what I’m referring to when saying Rangers future is bleak…need to rely on UFAs. I don’t think that’s the best way to build a team.

To be fair they can rely on these things more than maybe any other team in the league because they have more advantages than any team in the league, rich white dudes want to have an apartment in Manhattan

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Ok, I guess you didn’t…and So again, I’ll say it. Current team average age near 30. Prospects “are what they are” and nothing special.

This is what I’m referring to when saying Rangers future is bleak…need to rely on UFAs. I don’t think that’s the best way to build a team.

Sucking for 10 years and being a doormat isnt exactly the best way either. The rangers over the past 15 or so years has been very good. In it almost every single year except for a few. And basically just a couple holes that need to be filled with ufa’s. Thats a fine way to build a team and frankly the way most teams are built.

Throwing away a decade isnt the way to go

 

[mikemarc1]

Sucking for 10 years and being a doormat isnt exactly the best way either. The rangers over the past 15 or so years has been very good. In it almost every single year except for a few. And basically just a couple holes that need to be filled with ufa’s. Thats a fine way to build a team and frankly the way most teams are built.

Throwing away a decade isnt the way to go

Maybe before your time but prior to these 15 years they were a doormat for almost a decade. All teams go through ups and downs.

We will see which teams did it right summer.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Maybe before your time but prior to these 15 years they were a doormat for almost a decade. All teams go through ups and downs.

We will see which teams did it right summer.

Rough patch leading up to the lockout. Post lockout they've been one of the winningest franchises in hockey. And again, didnt need to be the laughing stock for a decade to do so.

You can build a winner through plugging holes with trades and free agency. Every team does.

Heck the devils plugged 3 holes doing so with Meier, Toffoli and Dougie. 1/3 of their top 6 and their top dman. And youre trying to argue if the rangers have to sign 2 ufa’s theyre not building the right way? Silly.

 

[mikemarc1]

Rough patch leading up to the lockout. Post lockout they've been one of the winningest franchises in hockey. And again, didnt need to be the laughing stock for a decade to do so.

You can build a winner through plugging holes with trades and free agency. Every team does.

Heck the devils plugged 3 holes doing so with Meier, Toffoli and Dougie. 1/3 of their top 6 and their top dman. And youre trying to argue if the rangers have to sign 2 ufa’s theyre not building the right way? Silly.

Trades and UFAs are different. (Though yea Dougiebwas obviously a UFA)

Nothing against building a team through trades. Means who have great assets to acquire a star.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Trades and UFAs are different. (Though yea Dougiebwas obviously a UFA)

Nothing against building a team through trades. Means who have great assets to acquire a star.

Youre not making sense here lol. Via trade you need to give up your coveted assets whereas ufa you give up money.

 

[mikemarc1]

Youre not making sense here lol. Via trade you need to give up your coveted assets whereas ufa you give up money.

Yes.

Im a big proponent on building thru your system. Developing guys to be key players, or using those guys to aquire key players. I’m not a proponent for just endlessly buying players. Hasn’t really worked

 

[mikemarc1]

Yes.

Im a big proponent on building thru your system. Developing guys to be key players, or using those guys to aquire key players. I’m not a proponent for just endlessly buying players. Hasn’t really worked

Now keep in mind I’m against trading for a player without long term commitment

 

[zappaa]

Youll see. O/U 27 goals. What you taking

Under!
He goes weeks without a goal or a point, while having no impact on the game at either end.
Possibly a lot of that was due to Gallant antiquated, clueless system, we shall see.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Yes.

Im a big proponent on building thru your system. Developing guys to be key players, or using those guys to aquire key players. I’m not a proponent for just endlessly buying players. Hasn’t really worked

So trade the assets that you say are coveted for players rather than sign them for free? You couldve signed tyler bertuzzi for a lower cap hit and less term than timo without giving up a single asset. If effective what the devs did would trade assets and give him a ufa style monster contract.

AFP had tyler bertuzzi projected long term at 6 X $5.2. Give me that allllllll day over timos 8 X $8.8. I take bertuzzi over timo to begin with, nevermind the assets that were wasted when they couldve signed him for none in 2024. Whats better bertuzzi and 26 overall and a good prospect in Musty along with the 4 prospects they dealt or timo + 8 X $8.8?

Youre being quite contradictory here. Your top paid forward and dman were trade/ufa. So again, pull dougie, timo and toffoli off the team. How are you feeling? Because your stance is rangers dont have a bright future because theyll have to sign 2 ufa’s to fill holes lol

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Under!
He goes weeks without a goal or a point, while having no impact on the game at either end.
Possibly a lot of that was due to Gallant antiquated, clueless system, we shall see.

I take the over. This will be his break out season and then there will be egging dripping from alot of peoples faces

 

[mikemarc1]

So trade the assets that you say are coveted for players rather than sign them for free? You couldve signed tyler bertuzzi for a lower cap hit and less term than timo without giving up a single asset. If effective what the devs did would trade assets and give him a ufa style monster contract.

AFP had tyler bertuzzi projected long term at 6 X $5.2. Give me that allllllll day over timos 8 X $8.8. I take bertuzzi over timo to begin with, nevermind the assets that were wasted when they couldve signed him for none in 2024. Whats better bertuzzi and 26 overall and a good prospect in Musty along with the 4 prospects they dealt or timo + 8 X $8.8?

Youre being quite contradictory here. Your top paid forward and dman were trade/ufa. So again, pull dougie, timo and toffoli off the team. How are you feeling? Because your stance is rangers dont have a bright future because theyll have to sign 2 ufa’s to fill holes lol

No my stance has been since two days ago, that the Rangers don't have a bright future because they're in a tough cap situation, their average age this year is nearly 30, and they have a low ranked farm system. And the fact you're urging them to sign the top 2 or 3 free agents in 3 years is proving my point.

And i'm feeling quite fine even without Meier, Toffolli and Dougie. Devils didn't have 2 of those 3 for most of last year and were quite fine.

 

[ruteelrice]

There is now 1 person on the planet that takes Bertuzzi over Timo

 

[mikemarc1]

There is now 1 person on the planet that takes Bertuzzi over Timo

KYK sure has some crazy opinions.

But its not worth arguing opinions. Its facts that matter. Rangers have an average age of nearly 30, have the 22nd ranked prospect pool, and have very little cap flexibility currently. All facts, and all evidence to me that the future as it is currently isn't great for the Rangers. I don't know how one can argue these facts otherwise.

 

[mdh2003]

This whole NYR/NJD debate you both are having is childish. The reality is that these franchises are following their MO to a tee. And both will have a bright future…on their own terms.

NYR, just like the last 60 years, will be an above avg team that wins more games than loses, usually makes the playoffs, wins a round or two, and probably will never sniff a cup.

NJD, will continue to be a roller coaster of an org. Either hot or cold, no in between. Be dogshit for many, many years. Then gather so many good, young picks (and a splash of luck) as to make wins, banners, and cup success an inevitability. Then, dogshit again. Rinse, repeat.

 

[mikemarc1]

This whole NYR/NJD debate you both are having is childish. The reality is that these franchises are following their MO to a tee. And both will have a bright future…on their own terms.

NYR, just like the last 60 years, will be an above avg team that wins more games than loses, usually makes the playoffs, wins a round or two, and probably will never sniff a cup.

NJD, will continue to be a roller coaster of an org. Either hot or cold, no in between. Be dogshit for many, many years. Then gather so many good, young picks (and a splash of luck) as to make wins, banners, and cup success an inevitability. Then, dogshit again. Rinse, repeat.

The former..to me, isn't a bright outlook. The latter...to me, is a bright outlook. If winning cups means having down years, that's fine with me. If not having down years but never sniffing a cup is the plan, ehhhh. I'll pass.

 

[robcac26]

Remember how utterly abysmal Chicago and Pittsburgh used to be? Then they drafted Kane, Toews, Crosby, Malkin, etc. and between 2009 and 2017 both teams won 3 Cups.

 

[mikemarc1]

Remember how utterly abysmal Chicago and Pittsburgh used to be? Then they drafted Kane, Toews, Crosby, Malkin, etc. and between 2009 and 2017 both teams won 3 Cups.

Nearly every Cup champion the past few decades went through a rough stretch. (Capitals, Blues, Bruins can make a claim otherwise)....

 

[mdh2003]

The former..to me, isn't a bright outlook. The latter...to me, is a bright outlook. If winning cups means having down years, that's fine with me. If not having down years but never sniffing a cup is the plan, ehhhh. I'll pass.

I can see that. But here’s the thing. You have the unique perspective of being a fan of team for which this has actually worked. Talk to a BUF fan, talk to a VAN fan, talk to a ARI fan. Well, maybe the latter has not suffered enough, lol. But, you get the point. Can you imagine the horror of being a fan of one of those franchises? Yeah, you get the suck. But wait, there’s more! Then you get…even more suck, lol. It’s just brutal. Imagine a world where NJD did not trade their pick in 90 and took Kidd AND TOR was smart enough to put a top 10 clause for Kurvers (RIP) - no Nieds…you get…Brandon Convery! Who?! Exactly.

All the sudden…poof…you’re Buffalo, lol. There but for the grace of God…

Even NYI/CAL/EDM - they won almost all the cups in the 80s, but it’s been tragic (by cup standards) ever since. How many high picks have they had amongst them? Dozens?

No doubt this tanking/cup winning cycle DOES work. NJD, PIT, amongst others are proof of that. But don’t think it ALWAYS does. Cause it don’t.

As far as NYR, they are what they are. Same as PHI, STL, TOR, WAS. Teams that are never really horrible for more than a year or so, but almost never get the cup. Sure NYR, WAS and STL won their 1 cup. But look at my buddy @robcac26‘s favorite spreadsheet - cups per year (or whatever). It’s not pretty for any of them.

NYR’s 54 year drought was the laughing stock by like a million years a few seasons ago. Now? TOR had since passed that and we have 3-4 more teams on deck to surpass it as well.

I guess my point is, you watch enough hockey, you see the patterns…plain as day. None of what we are seeing should be a big surprise.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

There is now 1 person on the planet that takes Bertuzzi over Timo

I trust my eyes. Meier was a poor mans version of sean avery when it mattered. Bertuzzi showed up and had 5 goals and 5 assists in 7 playoff games. And again, he comes at nearly half the price and without shelling out assets

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

KYK sure has some crazy opinions.

But its not worth arguing opinions. Its facts that matter. Rangers have an average age of nearly 30, have the 22nd ranked prospect pool, and have very little cap flexibility currently. All facts, and all evidence to me that the future as it is currently isn't great for the Rangers. I don't know how one can argue these facts otherwise.

Lol, you argued that if you need to sign build your team outside of the draft then your future is not bright. To which I said its kinda normal to fill holes with ufa’s. To which you once again said if you have to do that thats bad. To which I pointed to your top 2 highest players effectively being ufa signings (meier being worse since he costs both assets and money). Then you go silent. I would too

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

I can see that. But here’s the thing. You have the unique perspective of being a fan of team for which this has actually worked. Talk to a BUF fan, talk to a VAN fan, talk to a ARI fan. Well, maybe the latter has not suffered enough, lol. But, you get the point. Can you imagine the horror of being a fan of one of those franchises? Yeah, you get the suck. But wait, there’s more! Then you get…even more suck, lol. It’s just brutal. Imagine a world where NJD did not trade their pick in 90 and took Kidd AND TOR was smart enough to put a top 10 clause for Kurvers (RIP) - no Nieds…you get…Brandon Convery! Who?! Exactly.

All the sudden…poof…you’re Buffalo, lol. There but for the grace of God…

Even NYI/CAL/EDM - they won almost all the cups in the 80s, but it’s been tragic (by cup standards) ever since. How many high picks have they had amongst them? Dozens?

No doubt this tanking/cup winning cycle DOES work. NJD, PIT, amongst others are proof of that. But don’t think it ALWAYS does. Cause it don’t.

As far as NYR, they are what they are. Same as PHI, STL, TOR, WAS. Teams that are never really horrible for more than a year or so, but almost never get the cup. Sure NYR, WAS and STL won their 1 cup. But look at my buddy @robcac26‘s favorite spreadsheet - cups per year (or whatever). It’s not pretty for any of them.

NYR’s 54 year drought was the laughing stock by like a million years a few seasons ago. Now? TOR had since passed that and we have 3-4 more teams on deck to surpass it as well.

I guess my point is, you watch enough hockey, you see the patterns…plain as day. None of what we are seeing should be a big surprise.

Im not convinced the devs are this juggernaut. Like every team they filled holes with signing guys and trading for guys.

- If nyr had even a half competent coach they probably win in 5.
- Carolina caved them in (they werent exactly a young fast team)
- They scored 2 goals or less in 8 of 12 playoff games.
- Jack got hurt again when it mattered because hes tiny and thats not changing
- they dont have an nhl caliber starter in net
- their team overall is very frail and tiny

 

[Ronnie_B]

No one in their right mind takes Bertuzzi over Timo, that's just ****ing stupid.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

No one in their right mind takes Bertuzzi over Timo, that's just ****ing stupid.

Betuzzi at his cap hit with no assets given up? All day.

And give me bertuzzi at $5mm over timo at $8.8 alllllll day.

 

[Ronnie_B]

Betuzzi at his cap hit with no assets given up? All day.

And give me bertuzzi at $5mm over timo at $8.8 alllllll day.

No.

 

[mikemarc1]

Lol, you argued that if you need to sign build your team outside of the draft then your future is not bright. To which I said its kinda normal to fill holes with ufa’s. To which you once again said if you have to do that thats bad. To which I pointed to your top 2 highest players effectively being ufa signings (meier being worse since he costs both assets and money). Then you go silent. I would too

I’m still here. Now I’d argue “normal holes” don’t consist of an entire first line and needing the top 3 FAs to sign. That’s not normal at all

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

I’m still here. Now I’d argue “normal holes” don’t consist of an entire first line and needing the top 3 FAs to sign. That’s not normal at all

The devs top 2 wingers are trades, if you want to say bratt ahead of toffoli I can hear that one out but personally I take toffoli due to him being bigger and being a guy who shows up in the playoffs. One of which was effectively a ufa signing that also cost a couple pretty solid assets.

In 2-3 years when the rangers will need to sign ufa's as they'll have a ton of cap space with trouba, panarin coming off the books and kreider with only one year left and an easily moveable contract at that time.

- Kakko will be a 1st line RW (he is already imo just hasn't been given the opportunity, his numbers are off the charts when he was playing on the 1st line briefly last year).

- Chytil will remain a solid 2C, he does have 1C upside but he's just not durable enough and frankly fits better on the wing.

- Laff is ahead of where meier was 3 years post draft as well despite playing 3rd line minutes and barely any PP time.

It's just the rangers are destinations for top 10 players and if you have the cap space why wouldn't you sign 1-2 of leon, eichel, kaprizov, mcdavid, rantenen? And you're nuts to think these agents aren't WELL aware of the rangers roster constructions and what summers they'll have big $$$.

Like this is just a stupid lineup if you land one of eichel, mcdavid, leon and then one of kaprizov/rantanen.

Kaprizov-Leon/Eichel/McDavid-Kakko
Laff-Mika-Chytil (he fits better on the wing imo)
Othmann-Trocheck-Perrault
Cuylle-McConnell Barker-Sykora

Lindgren-Fox
Kandre-Schneider
Zac Jones- UFA

Igor

How is this team not a cup favorite? Future is really bright.

 

[mikemarc1]

The devs top 2 wingers are trades, if you want to say bratt ahead of toffoli I can hear that one out but personally I take toffoli due to him being bigger and being a guy who shows up in the playoffs. One of which was effectively a ufa signing that also cost a couple pretty solid assets.

In 2-3 years when the rangers will need to sign ufa's as they'll have a ton of cap space with trouba, panarin coming off the books and kreider with only one year left and an easily moveable contract at that time.

- Kakko will be a 1st line RW (he is already imo just hasn't been given the opportunity, his numbers are off the charts when he was playing on the 1st line briefly last year).

- Chytil will remain a solid 2C, he does have 1C upside but he's just not durable enough and frankly fits better on the wing.

- Laff is ahead of where meier was 3 years post draft as well despite playing 3rd line minutes and barely any PP time.

It's just the rangers are destinations for top 10 players and if you have the cap space why wouldn't you sign 1-2 of leon, eichel, kaprizov, mcdavid, rantenen? And you're nuts to think these agents aren't WELL aware of the rangers roster constructions and what summers they'll have big $$$.

Like this is just a stupid lineup if you land one of eichel, mcdavid, leon and then one of kaprizov/rantanen.

Kaprizov-Leon/Eichel/McDavid-Kakko
Laff-Mika-Chytil (he fits better on the wing imo)
Othmann-Trocheck-Perrault
Cuylle-McConnell Barker-Sykora

Lindgren-Fox
Kandre-Schneider
Zac Jones- UFA

Igor

How is this team not a cup favorite? Future is really bright.

And if you don’t land one of Eichel, McDavid, Leon Kaprizov or Rantanen…the lineup sucks.

Hence, again, evidence that RIGHT NOW as your team is built…not great future. This isn’t hard