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OT: Big winter storm next weekend (01/22-01/24)?

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The 12z Canadian model like the GFS also shows a major snowstorm with blizzard conditions. One to two feet of wind whipped heavy snow on this run. Again, it's only Tuesday and the storm is not coming til late Friday, finer details and exact track still need to be ironed out.


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Uh oh...

There's talk of the dreaded SUPPRESSION! in the early returns from current model runs.
 
And King Euro shows absolutely no snow in our area. NC gets hammered, keeps the heavy snow well south.

Will it start a trend?
 
And King Euro shows absolutely no snow in our area. NC gets hammered, keeps the heavy snow well south.

Will it start a trend?

This is suggestive of some consistency with the Euro, which was showing an OTS track last night, as well.

If the Euro bails, then the model hugging will begin in earnest.

That's always really fun to watch.
 
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Death, Taxes, and RU losing by 30 against the top 12 teams in B1G in men's baseketball

Hopefully you've been profiting on such knowledge. -21.5 was nice present. The gifts keep giving since BIG play started. Vegas hasn't caught up.
 
The Euro is the one model you want showing a big snowstorm, if you want a big snowstorm. Weenie suicide watch should be posted...
 
The Euro and the UKMET are showing similar suppressed solutions. If we're still seeing the same thing in another 12 hours, then we might be looking at a "storm cancel".
 
One thing that I read a lot on American Weather is that the Euro had the Boxing Day 2010 storm, lost it, then brought it back at 72 hours. They also claim it whiffed on the big one last year, but I think that's harsh since some people still got hammered and we got 8 inches in my area. They also fail to mention that the Euro pegged Sandy and last fall's hurricane miss.
 
The Euro and the UKMET are showing similar suppressed solutions. If we're still seeing the same thing in another 12 hours, then we might be looking at a "storm cancel".

I'm knocking the French Toast Alert back to Yellow.
 
One thing that I read a lot on American Weather is that the Euro had the Boxing Day 2010 storm, lost it, then brought it back at 72 hours. They also claim it whiffed on the big one last year, but I think that's harsh since some people still got hammered and we got 8 inches in my area. They also fail to mention that the Euro pegged Sandy and last fall's hurricane miss.
The Euro was dead on for the failed Storm of the Century last year. Was also dead on and the lone wolf pointing the one hyped hurricane this past summer going out to sea days before any other model did
 
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The Euro and the UKMET are showing similar suppressed solutions. If we're still seeing the same thing in another 12 hours, then we might be looking at a "storm cancel".

Wouldn't say that. But I'd think the percentage of seeing a big storm would go down significantly. You still have the other models in pretty much agreement.

Should be fun.
 
The 12z Euro is in and this model now takes the heaviest snow south. It gives the blizzard with over 2 feet of snow to the middle atlantic states of Virginia, Maryland, Delaware and North Carolina while giving significantly less to states like New York further north. The ultimate path of the storm will be critical to who ends up in the bullseye and with the storm still more than 3 days away.
 
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is it to early to look at odds that I will be able to fly out of Newark on Sunday late afternoon?
 
The Japan model, which also has been consistent with a big storm, just came in and also shifted south. Seems to be a trend starting?
 
The Japan model, which also has been consistent with a big storm, just came in and also shifted south. Seems to be a trend starting?

Euro, Ukie and now JMA trending toward a more southern, OTS solution. Also, it's been pointed out that the last couple runs of the GFS have been strengthening the northern high pressure, which could also indicate a trend in the GFS toward a suppressed storm.

This is starting to smell like weenie suicide watch.
 
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GFS/GGEM (Canadian) vs. Euro/UKMET. As every pro has said, until we get the two systems in the Pacific (especially the "main one" off the Pac NW US coast, just coming ashore now) onshore and sampled much more completely by the RAOB (radiosonde - weather balloons, which provide 3-D data at various points from the surface to the upper atmosphere) system, the data inputs to the models are more suspect. We should have the much richer initial condition data set for tonight's model runs, which initialize at 7 pm. Not worth trying to "predict" what's going to happen before seeing tonight's model runs. Everything from a 2/6/10 scenario, where only south of 195 got hammered and NYC got flurries (and Edison got 6", Trenton got 18" and Philly got 28"; all due to confluence/suppression), to Jan 1996 are still on the table until then.
 
it will be interesting to see if those like DT and others who constantly trash the GFS toss it or not.

This is the time period where models tend to lose storms and then bring them back so it could be a hiccup run or a trend. The Euro always had this storm and its best dynamics south so that has to be a concern to weenies. I believer verbatim on this run we still get a couple inches especially toward the coast but the model may not be done trending south either

no one was paying attention but for last weekend we were suppose to get over an inch of rain and then the models took the qpf away and pushed the storm south and out to sea as we got closer...although at the very end it actually tracked a bit farther north that's we got a coating.
 
also the NAM which is garbage in this range..and quite frankly garbage in any range will likely come out in an hour with a ridiculous qpf of 2 inches with weenie maps of 2 feet that will at least quench the thirst of the weenies temporarily...we know we can toss it
 
No, The Gods have spoken. This one is done.

Here's why:

  1. This morning I went and picked up the brand-new snowblower that I bought yesterday because there was no way the old one was going to get fixed in time.
  2. My next-door neighbor texted me and asked me to get the old one fixed, whenever possible, so that he could buy it and take it to his warehouse to use there.
  3. An hour later, my small engine guy showed up to pick up the old snowblower and, saying that they were completely overwhelmed with business and that he would rather do as much work as he could in real time, proceeded to disassemble, repair and reassemble my old snowblower, right in the middle of my driveway.
Accordingly, I now have not one but TWO perfectly good snowblowers sitting in my garage.

It will never snow again.
 
The Euro was dead on for the failed Storm of the Century last year. Was also dead on and the lone wolf pointing the one hyped hurricane this past summer going out to sea days before any other model did
Euro has been best: for many major snowstorms in the past, for Sandy, for Joaquin, etc., but the Euro was the model that got the blizzard "wrong" at the end last January. It had the storm "right" for days, but it missed the 50-75 mile shift in storm track 12 hours before the storm hit. Other models also missed this, but the GFS didn't so the "GFS huggers" (many mets) got a jump on the western part of the storm (i.e., most of NJ) missing out on major snowfalls.

The Euro nailed the rest of the storm for NYC eastward, especially LI/New England - and the bust wasn't anywhere near as bad as March 2001, when Philly to NYC had 1-2 feet forecast and got <1" in that area; at least in NJ last year, areas along I-95 got 4-8" and near the shore and NYC got 8-12" (western NJ, where 10-18" were predicted only got a couple of inches)
 
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The Japan model, which also has been consistent with a big storm, just came in and also shifted south. Seems to be a trend starting?
Nobody I know seriously looks at the JMA. It's more than enough that the Euro is seeing suppression (and the UK to boot) - although keep in mind, the Euro is still showing 12" or more from Wilmington, DE to Toms River and the 6-8" line is up I-95 from Philly to Staten Island, so it's not like it's showing nothing. Tonight's 0Z runs, with much better initial condition data ingested into the models from the shortwaves from the Pacific now being onshore, will be the most anticipated runs in the history of the free world, lol.
 
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Within the last hour, the Asbury Park Press headline is:
Major winter storm expected to slam New Jersey
http://www.app.com/story/weather/stormwatch/2016/01/19/january-winter-storm/79003368/

New Jerseyans should start getting ready for a doozy of a winter storm that could drop up to two feet of snow and cause coastal flooding early this weekend.:rolleyes:

The "2 feet of snow" thing is, IMO, looking more like the longshot than the sure bet.

The really serious problem for the Jersey shore is going to be flooding. All of the models are still predicting sustained periods of 50 mph onshore winds during a period of peak astronomical tides. Places like Sea Bright could see deviations +6' above normal. That would be their worst flooding since Sandy.
 
No, The Gods have spoken. This one is done.

Here's why:

  1. This morning I went and picked up the brand-new snowblower that I bought yesterday because there was no way the old one was going to get fixed in time.
  2. My next-door neighbor texted me and asked me to get the old one fixed, whenever possible, so that he could buy it and take it to his warehouse to use there.
  3. An hour later, my small engine guy showed up to pick up the old snowblower and, saying that they were completely overwhelmed with business and that he would rather do as much work as he could in real time, proceeded to disassemble, repair and reassemble my old snowblower, right in the middle of my driveway.
Accordingly, I now have not one but TWO perfectly good snowblowers sitting in my garage.

It will never snow again.
ROFL

I'm gonna sell my snowblower, along with every bit of winter gear I own. And I'm clearly going to have to sell my youngest kid who does all the snow removal around here these days.

That might normalize things and maybe we'll get snow again by 2020.
 
The Euro and the UKMET are showing similar suppressed solutions. If we're still seeing the same thing in another 12 hours, then we might be looking at a "storm cancel".
Let me know when I can call all this "hype" a bust! :)
 
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Where have I attacked anyone on this thread? I'm attacking the media.
If you want the proof do it yourself. Take the 5 day forecasts on the local news (Philly) for every storm last year and see which ones hit the 5 day mark. And they also missed on last year's Storm of the Century inside the 12 hour window and badly!

Everyone, including the NWS, concedes that the forecast for NJ in last year's "blizzard" was a bust, although not a complete whiff like March 2001 was (where 1-2 feet were predicted from Philly to NYC and most locations got <1"), since 4-8" fell along I-95 and 8-12" fell east of the Parkway and within 10-15 miles of NYC. The storm was extremely well predicted from NYC eastward, including LI and most of New England.

And given that the models were all showing a foot or more of snow for everyone until a few hours before the event (for some/some models still showed the big snowstorm right up until late in the afternoon when the storm started), what would you have public safety professionals/govt. do? Just ignore the situation and hope for a bust? No, decisions to shut down need to be made at least a half day to a day in advance and it was the prudent thing to do. Having said that, the could've easily lifted the emergency by midnight, when it was crystal clear snowmageddon wasn't hitting 90% of NJ - not sure they could've cancelled the cancellation of schools/work so quickly though.

With regard to the rest of the dozen plus storms last year, you can't seriously consider grading them based on their 5-day forecasts. That's just effing stupid. 5-day forecasts are as accurate as 3-day forecasts were 25 years ago, which is to say, they're just ok, and they're certainly not going to be accurate for snowfall across a wide area - there's a reason no serious forecaster will publish a snowfall prediction more than 72 hours before the event and 48 hours is when they typically first publish forecasts.

Mostly for the reason I mentioned in this thread, i.e., almost any major snowstorm has energy coming ashore from the Pacific around 48-72 hours before the storm starts, just like this one, where the energy is coming ashore now, about 72 hours before the storms starts here (60 hours before it starts in NC/VA) and those systems aren't well sampled, data-wise, meaning "garbage in, garbage out" quite often for the models.

Personally, I think grading a snowfall forecast ~24 hours before an event starts is fair, since that gives people time to adjust plans. If you use that criterion, most of last year's events were reasonably well forecasted. I know, I have all my emails, which contain all the NWS maps from ~24 hours (and 48 hours usually) before the events. Have skimmed through them and they're pretty good (not perfect for every location though) - you'll just have to take my word for it for now, as I don't have time to put all that together, although the NWS might have "grades" on their forecasts - I'll see if I can find that.

I think we can agree that some media outlets way overhype storms and that's unfortunate. I don't think the NWS does and I don't think the good pros do - just listen to them talk about possibilities and uncertainties to know they're not overhyping.
 
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The "2 feet of snow" thing is, IMO, looking more like the longshot than the sure bet.

The really serious problem for the Jersey shore is going to be flooding. All of the models are still predicting sustained periods of 50 mph onshore winds during a period of peak astronomical tides. Places like Sea Bright could see deviations +6' above normal. That would be their worst flooding since Sandy.

Crap. Our new fire station building project is crawling along in Sea Bright. Our apparatus are currently housed in an old warehouse at the end of the street adjacent to the river. Time to move to higher ground.
 
Crap. Our new fire station building project is crawling along in Sea Bright. Our apparatus are currently housed in an old warehouse at the end of the street adjacent to the river. Time to move to higher ground.

You with 43-1?
 
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